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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu in being shocked at this school newsletter?

570 replies

whensitmyturn · 02/02/2018 17:17

Aibu in being pretty appalled at this school news letter or am i being naive?

Children attend a catholic primary school- dh is Catholic I am not. Never had an issue with the school, children are in the last couple of years there.

Had a newsletter home tonight saying that a new ‘children and social work act of 2017’ has been passed and that parents will no longer be able to remove their children for PSHE lessons but that the government are still deciding what content the lessons should have. There is a public questionnaire on gov.uk to write your ideas.

The newsletter then goes on to say that we need to ensure that things that are age suited to children get suggested and I quote ‘to avoid respect for alternative lifestyles being allowed to undermine Christian principles of marriage and family life’.

It then goes on to link ‘coalition for marriage’ for help with us filling in this questionnaire.

Coalition 4 marriage is a group that promotes a traditional family set up and states that children should be taught that ‘marriage between a man and a woman as the gold standard of adult relationships’ Also that ‘they believe there is no age-appropriate way to teach primary school children about same sex marriages or transgenderism’. In blinding hypocrisy it then goes on to say ‘we should be teaching children broad values of tolerance and respect’.

!? I thought that in this day and age in the uk even if you attend a faith school inclusivity was seen as important/ the norm.
Would you be angry at this or just see it as an unavoidable downside of attending a catholic school?

OP posts:
PancakeInMaBelly · 02/02/2018 21:55

Sunshine, really you are being ridiculous to continue to insist that people who condemn an institutions ethos and actions remain voluntary active members and supporters of said institution.

DreamyMcDreamy · 02/02/2018 21:55

Where the fuck do live - and on what planet - do parents have this idyllic freedom of choice? This freedom to select schools as they wish? This freedom to move areas?

FFS - are people really being this hard of thinking or being deliberately obtuse?!
I have said that there is not always the option to go to another school. So if that is your only choice, you have to go there then. Can you not see how hypocritical you are being to say "you must think my way" whilst at the same time moaning at them for saying you must think our way?!
If you don't like what the religious aspect and you're stuck with it, teach your children yourself from your parenting role that this is what some people believe, but there are other ways of lives and beliefs out there and it is perfectly OK in our country (UK) from a legal point of view for same sex marriage.

sunshineintheclouds · 02/02/2018 21:57

PancakeInMaBelly

Not at all, I am respectful of others.

I am Christian, I have met many Christians in my life who views are in my opinion not a reflection on Gods love or wants. But I am respectful enough not to insult them.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 02/02/2018 22:02

No. You chose RC school,so you were assumed to be concordant with beliefs
You didn’t have to attend an RC school,you chose it.and it’s ideologicies
Many other parents decline/don’t chose faith schools as the beliefs arent compatible

So actually you don’t need to attend rc school.suck it up or move

DreamyMcDreamy · 02/02/2018 22:03

Not demand everyone has to think the same as you.
Again, lovely straw man. No one is demanding that. At all. Why do you keep pretending they do?

Well,here's one for starters.
Are they going to be peddling this "marriage is between a man and a woman" crap during PSHE lessons then?
Crap? From your (general you) point of view, not theirs- presumably they shouldn't be thinking like that?
It's not crap - it's what they believe. You're (general your viewpoint) is doing the exact same thing -saying their way of thinking is wrong.
Why not promote tolerance for other way of lives? You don't have to believe. Just not come up with stuff like it's a load of crap.
Then you tell your children about the other beliefs out there.

No dear
Hmm Don't be so patronising.

PancakeInMaBelly · 02/02/2018 22:03

I am Christian, I have met many Christians in my life who views are in my opinion not a reflection on Gods love or wants. But I am respectful enough not to insult them.
Which is exactly the problem with the RC. The commanding of "respect" regardless of what they've done. People "respectfully" turning a blind eye and not calling them out (through fear of oppression or "respect")

I'm sorry but I'm not as bothered as you if I come across as rude to supporters of oppression

HeckyPeck · 02/02/2018 22:04

Today 21:15 JassyRadlett

What you don't do is demand everyone bow to your way of thinking just because you don't believe in it.

No. And no one on this thread has suggested that, have they?

But you can (a) call out as bullshit the nonsense some people peddle about having ‘chosen’ a faith school; (b) continue to campaign against the concept of state-funded faith schools to provide a level playing field for children of all faiths and none; and (c) challenge any teachings of their school that are at odds with their legal responsibilities to meet the standards of educational provision the state is paying them to provide.

All while treading the tricky line of trying to support the school and not undermine its other work and the authority of the teachers as trustworthy sources of information despite them teaching belief as fact, while encouraging tolerance in one’s own children.

Yes to this.

Absolutely ridiculous in this day and age that parent should just roll over and accept that their children will be taught bigoted outdated views as fact in schools.

Greensleeves · 02/02/2018 22:04

I think they shouldn't be teaching it in a state school.

sunshineintheclouds · 02/02/2018 22:06

I respect their belief, I don't respect any person who has caused harm to anyone else. But I do know it is the people and them alone not the belief.
I would not be dis respectful to a whole religious group over other people actions.

ScouseAT · 02/02/2018 22:06

I left the Catholic education system 25 years ago. Even then the overriding message was everyone is equal and we should respect each other regardless of our differences. I have lived in various places across the country and dipped in and out of different churches and schools along the way and this is still the over-riding message. Tolerance, love and respect. I think this stance says more about the school than the faith and I would definitely by complaining.

DreamyMcDreamy · 02/02/2018 22:07

Absolutely ridiculous in this day and age that parent should just roll over and accept that their children will be taught bigoted outdated views as fact in schools.

It's a FAITH school! Some schools are tied to religion, and if you don't like it, you work round it. Not go there and accept them to change their way of thinking to accomodate you.

HeckyPeck · 02/02/2018 22:09

Crap? From your (general you) point of view, not theirs- presumably they shouldn't be thinking like that?

Not only is it crap, but it's dangerous crap. Why do you think there is such a high suicide rate amongst young LGBT people? It's because of intolerant crap. Why should a child have to sit through a lesson of being told they are wrong?

What if a school decided to teach that interracial marriage was wrong? Would disagreeing with that be being intolerant of other people's beliefs? Would you want the next generation being fed that as fact?

sunshineintheclouds · 02/02/2018 22:10

Everyone has the right to disagree.

DreamyMcDreamy · 02/02/2018 22:10

I respect their belief, I don't respect any person who has caused harm to anyone else. But I do know it is the people and them alone not the belief. I would not be dis respectful to a whole religious group over other people actions.

Well said, this exactly.

sunshineintheclouds · 02/02/2018 22:11

There is a big difference to disagreeing and mocking/insulting someone else.

HeckyPeck · 02/02/2018 22:12

So you wouldn't call a viewpoint of interracial marriage being wrong a load of outdated crap? You'd support teachers teaching that to kids?

20nil · 02/02/2018 22:14

Kind of shocked by Catholics who are indignant about the idea that this sort of bigotry might be taught in their schools. Catholic doctrine is hugely conservative, no matter how many gay people your priest welcomes to his church.

Catholic school girl here by the way so I saw this in action. I would never put my DC through it.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/02/2018 22:19

I don't respect any person who has caused harm to anyone else. But I do know it is the people and them alone not the belief

In principle yes, but doesn't that raise the issue of how the belief links to those who lead, guide and disseminate it - especially when what we might describe as the "governing body" have shown themselves resistant to scrutiny?

As I've said, it's not the private religious beliefs I have any issue with at all ... only the promotion of those beliefs on the taxpayer's tab, especially where there's a well founded cause for concern around child protection

JassyRadlett · 02/02/2018 22:22

Crap? From your (general you) point of view, not theirs- presumably they shouldn't be thinking like that?

They shouldn’t be teaching that marriage is only between a man and a woman, no. Because apart from anything else, that is factually incorrect. It’s fine for them to teach that Catholic marriage as a sacrament is only between a man and a woman, but it’s not fine for them to use public money to teach that the Catholic sacrament of marriage is the only valid concept of marriage when secular marriage has existed since the 19th century in this country and same sex marriage is the law of (most of) the land. (And totally ignores that marriage as a concept significantly predates Christianity.)

It's not crap - it's what they believe.

And it’s fine that they teach it as belief, but not that it exclusive fact because they feel there is no ‘age appropriate’ way to explain other forms of marriage exist outside the he Catholic faith.

Don't be so patronising.

Oops. I was aiming for condescending after your ‘common fucking sense’ jibe in a post devoid of same.

DreamyMcDreamy · 02/02/2018 22:24

Not only is it crap, but it's dangerous crap. Why do you think there is such a high suicide rate amongst young LGBT people? It's because of intolerant crap. Why should a child have to sit through a lesson of being told they are wrong?

If you have no choice to send them there, then you should be teaching your children too.Telling them that that is what some believe but tell them yourself and educate them too in other ways.

DreamyMcDreamy · 02/02/2018 22:25

There is a big difference to disagreeing and mocking/insulting someone else.

Agree.

HeckyPeck · 02/02/2018 22:29

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I'm also entitled to have the opinion that homophobic ideas are crap and teaching them to children shouldn't be allowed.

HeckyPeck · 02/02/2018 22:31

If you have no choice to send them there, then you should be teaching your children too.Telling them that that is what some believe but tell them yourself and educate them too in other ways.

That's the thing though, why should parents have no choice but to send their kids to schools that teach dangerous ideas?

DreamyMcDreamy · 02/02/2018 22:31

So you wouldn't call a viewpoint of interracial marriage being wrong a load of outdated crap? You'd support teachers teaching that to kids?

I do think the viewpoint of interracial marriage being wrong is a load of crap. Nothing wrong with interracial marriage at all, and if my kids had to go to a school that said interracial marriage was wrong, you can bet I'd be telling my kids themselves, that no actually, there's nothing wrong with it, but some religions/people do believe that.
I wouldn't send them there and then say they weren't allowed to think that way anymore because I said so. It's you going into their space and way of life. You either accept, educate your child on top yourself as well, or remove.

HeckyPeck · 02/02/2018 22:33

I wouldn't send them there and then say they weren't allowed to think that way anymore because I said so. It's you going into their space and way of life. You either accept, educate your child on top yourself as well, or remove.

Would you not be outraged that the govt allowed it to be taught in schools? Campaign for there to be rules against it?

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