To pump or move to bottles..? Feeling sad and desperate

[igotdaboobies]

I don't know what to do... baby is 8days old and I have been breastfeeding so far but just really doubting whether I am doing so effectively.
Will try to be concise with background info:

Born via elective c section

Birth weight 9lb 8oz
Sent home from hospital feeding well on day 2

Readmitted day 3 after dreadful pain and bleeding from incision- wound was infected.

On IV antibiotics and stronger pain killers in hospital.

Had some excellent support with feeding from midwives in hospital as well as some awful, unhelpful nurses who said they couldn't do anything to help me other than get me a bottle. This is while I had a cannula in the back of my hand so really struggled with positioning while baby was screaming and I was getting really emotional. Cannula ended up being torn out by the way.

Baby weighed in hospital after I reminded them she was day 5 and she had lost 11% of birth weight.

I said she hadn't pooed in 3 days and midwife suggested my husband comes back (this was in the middle of the night) and take her to A and E because of this. Really worried by this point that something is wrong with my baby. Then midwife changed her mind and said that maybe it was okay because I was breastfeeding.

Put on a feeding plan to wake baby every 3 hours to get her to feed and used pump to then top up feeds with a cup. This was after doctor had suggested formula but I requested to try pump first.

Sent home again after infection markers had lowered and wound was okay and moved to oral antibiotics and paracetamol and ibuprofen.

Community midwife came day after I was home and said keep just feeding every three hours and we would see the next day if she was putting on weight.

Baby just been weighed and loss has now gone down to 10% so she put 1% back on in 2-3 days (since she was weighed in the middle of the night between day 5&6).

I have been doing the feeds every 3 hours. She can be difficult to wake up to feed- I change her nappy and sometimes strip her off to try to rouse her. She feeds for around an hour from both breasts before falling back to sleep. Sometimes she will feed for much longer- two hours and still seems unsatisfied. My husband went out yesterday morning and bought some formula to give a top up feed with a bottle, which she took without any problem and then fell asleep satisfied.

I don't know how to go forward. My husband would clearly advocate just moving to bottles full time, as would other friends and family who have said about it being easier, being able to see what the baby is getting etc - all valid and reasonable points.

Or do I buy a pump (and if so, which one?! They're not cheap!) and try to persevere with breastfeeding?

I forgot to add that with DD1, I tried and gave up after 3 days as it was too sore (turned out she had a tongue tie) so I really wanted to persevere this time.

I'm becoming really sad, stressed and emotional. I'm worried that my baby isn't getting enough nourishment and feel desperately guilty about that. Is it selfish to try to continue with the breast if this is the case?

Any advice would be much appreciated. Sorry this is so long!

Please get some expert breastfeeding advice.
Unfortunately (and surprisingly) most midwives are not well trained on it.
You need to see an infant feeding specialist, a lactation consultant or a breastfeeding counsellor. You could ask the midwife or HV to refer you but the easiest thing to do is to just go to a breastfeeding drop-in (Google breastfeeding help near you). They will be able to do a proper tongue tie assessment, check baby’s latch and advise on mix feeding if that’s what you want to do for now.

I had an infection when my dd was a small baby too op. Apparently infections can affect how much milk you're making. my dd was crying all the time & with hindsight she was obviously very hungry & was losing weight. I should have given her top ups of formula & this is something I regret now. But I was adamant I only wanted her to have breast milk. Not sure if it's possible but I feel like my infection was making her poorly too & she wasn't right when i look back now.

Eventually I got quite poorly and had to stop breastfeeding her for a couple of weeks while I was on antibiotics anyway, so i formula fed for those 2 weeks or so, not knowing if she would breastfeed again or not.

I pumped every 3 hours (massive faff) to keep my milk coming as I really wanted to breastfeed her like I had done my son. The midwives lent me a huge industrial sized thing. And actually the pumping seemed to work really well as i didn't have problems after that. She went back to breastfeeding after the antibiotics had finished & fed her til she was 2.

What I'm trying to say is, I wish now that I'd done top ups and not felt guilty for it. I wasn't making enough milk despite people telling me she was probably getting enough. And pumping worked wonders for my supply. And fenugreek.

The exact same thing happened with my 2 DS - both lost 12% of weight, with DS1 I persevered for a month with exact same feeding plan and it was entirely fruitless, no support with how to wean him off top ups and he simply preferred the bottle because it was easier for him. I was an emotional wreck and didn't leave the house for over a month I felt such a failure. DS2 was on all formula by day 7 and I am a much happier Mam for it - he is currently 3 weeks old and we have been out and about loads as a family. I know we should all be advocating BF and all the benefits but in the haze of cluster feeding, worry of baby losing weight and trying to still connect with the eldest it's so very very difficult to see the wood for the trees so I totally sympathise with you OP. No one will judge you for going with formula again and it doesn't make you a failure. Parenthood is one big bloody guilt trip and we will all be feeling guilty about not giving them puréed organic kale in 6 months time !!! Good luck with whatever you decide

I had a very similar experience in October with DS2 (cs, sleepy baby, 11% weight loss, although no infection - poor you). I was also given the advice to top up each feed with 60ml expressed milk or formula. I bought a double electric pump from Boots, Ardo Calypso, which was about £135. I was really reluctant to spend the money because it looked to me like bf wasn't going to work out. Well somehow it did - he gained weight slowly at first, but as the days went on he got less sleepy and fed more, and was back to birth weight at just over two weeks old. We were all over the place with topups as well - used a mixture of ebm, formula, nothing depending on how long he'd fed and what I'd managed to produce - i remember so well how incredibly difficult and time consuming the feed, pump, feed expressed milk cycle is when you also need to eat, shower, look after older child too. Now he's 15 weeks, ebf since 10 days old, and has gained weight beautifully ever since and the initial nightmare with feeding seems like a distant memory.

Please don't feel bad about formula feeding if you'd prefer that. My DS1 was almost completely formula fed after the first few days after a rocky start for other reasons and he's in rude health aged 3. On the other hand if you'd prefer to persevere with bf and see how it goes, it could end up working out well. In the early days i was finding it incredibly difficult and stressful and constantly telling DH that I was giving it two more days and then he was definitely going on bottles. That deadline kept getting extended until it felt like it was going well. If he had struggled at all with weight gain after the initial few days I'd have switched to formula - a thriving baby was more important to me than the method of feeding.

Hey OP and for you!

I had a similar experience back in October. DS was 6lb and jaundice. I received bad advice in the hospital from the midwives etc etc
BF took a while to sort out and would try for up to an hour to get him to latch before we would give him a little formula and then try again later (we bought a box of those ready mixed bottles - much easier then than messing about making up a bottle after trying to bf for an hour!) Anyway- we ended up going in to our local birth centre and they gave us some great advice and we have never looked back since. Ds is now a complete pro and has gained weight nicely. I'm glad I stuck with it as it is so much easier! But do what you think is best.

Sorry you have had such a crappy time and congratulations on your lovely new baby!

I think it sounds like you're doing well, OP. I had 2 tricky c-sections with high blood loss and struggled with my supply. Also big babies (9 and 11lb). I had to top them both up with formula as they were both re-admitted to SCBU at day 5 with jaundice. They had 3-hourly formula, and with DD I pumped in between (she wouldn't latch) and fed DS in between.

I needed a lactation consultat to get DD to latch (she eventually did it on day 10) and phased out the formula with both. It was hard work as they were on me 24/7 but this calmed down after a couple of weeks.

Formula doesn't necessarily mean the end for BF, you can still EBF later on if you want. Or you could mix feed. You could ask the hospital to borrow a pump, or rent one? At the moment you just need to go easy on yourself. I hope your DS supports your choices.

I've lurked for ages and joined just to reply to you. I had an emergency csection and despite all my research and planning (lol hindsight!) had no freaking idea re breastfeeding. After attempting breastfeeding for days (and being in agonising pain with a hungry baby) I ended up using some formula and pumping... and despite being told in the hospital that it meant I was giving up on breastfeeding, I was actually just listening to my body. My (adorable/perfect/amazing) child is now 6 months and still happily half breast feeding/half formula. Do what feels right for you and baby and it will work out. I felt terrible guilt over using formula even though I knew I was being irrational. But I just wanted to say mixed feeding can work :) and also ((Hugs!!))

Oh you sound so similar to me as well! Stopped breastfeeding my first after 5 days due to hellish emcs and weight loss worries. Always felt dreadful about it, completely irrationally. C section again with second and loads of issues, felt really desperate and tortured myself about whether or not to switch to formula again.

You have had some really good advice already, I just wanted to second the suggestion of hiring a medela symphony hospital grade pump. Medela do next day delivery if you order online before 3pm. Miles better than any you can buy in the shops.

I would also hugely recommend seeing a lactation consultant or similar person who specialises in tongue tie diagnosis. We had to go privately and my lovely brother paid in lieu of a baby present. It was £75, plus a further £75 to have the procedure to divide it which was over in seconds, baby barely squeaked.

Breastfeeding support workers, health visitors and midwives etc can be brilliant but they really only deal with normal breastfeeding problems.

My baby had a posterior tongue tie and high palate and despite about 5 different (well meaning) health care professionals telling us he wasn't tongue tied, they just aren't expert enough to see a posterior tie. Often, it's actually diagnosed by touch.

My DS was eventually diagnosed at 11 weeks and snipped at 13. Within 2 weeks the difference was massive and he has gone from the 9th centile at 5 weeks ( born on the 50th and dropped down despite my constant, and I mean CONSTANT feeding) back to the 50th at 6 months. When I stopped weighing him as he is now 7.5 months and a fatty bum bum.

We supplemented with formula from 7 weeks and got rid of it altogether apart from 5 ozs at bedtime, by 16 weeks.
We are still breastfeeding.
If you want to do this you can. But you need the right support to give yourself the best possible chance and minimise your stress.

With hindsight, part of me is pleased I persevered and found a reason for the feeding issues. However, it near sent me bonkers and at 7.5 months I am still utterly sleep deprived and have moments when I really wish I had just switched to formula. If formula will allow you to enjoy your baby more, go for it. I disagree that breastfeeding is easier. It got easier after 6 months and I'm sure is easier with a baby that feeds efficiently. However, my DS has always taken ages, needed feeding every two hours and been a frequent night waker.

Good luck op, be gentle with yourself and you are not alone in finding this so tough. You're doing an amazing job.

good for you OP, just remember to not be so hard on yourself, feed in what ever way is best for you and baby and ignore anyone who says different!
your husband sounds very supportive of what ever you need to do to feed baby, which is awesome as he can give you a boost in moral when you are feeling drained and tired and he can take turns doing top up feeds or if you pump he can feed baby and get a chance to bond while you pump!
Fed is Best!

I've not read all the replies so apologies if I repeat what has already been suggested.
I had some similar experiences when my little girl was born and I continue to give her 2 top up formula feeds a day. It reassures me she's getting plenty and has the side effect of building her acceptance to take different flavours/bottles etc as well as boob.
One extra thing I did after a particularly unhelpful nurse announced that my baby was losing weight so my "milk clearly isn't good enough" (and kind of forced us to ff top up) was to look at ways to up my supply - fenugreek tablets (if you can stand the smell) and lactation cookies - yum!! Both seemed to help and my baby is doing really well now.
Good luck!!

Yes. I agree that if she’s sleeping 3 hours and not jaundiced then she must be getting plenty of milk. I had to rouse mine every three hours but she had bad jaundice which she was treated for, but still remained sleepy for a long while after. Feeds used to take 1 hour minimum. That’s normal, which I know now but the midwife told me it shouldn’t be taking that long to feed. You don’t always get correct support from midwives so I would second getting other professional advice. Good luck.

OP I’ve been thinking about you more. I talked to my HV about my baby sleeping too much and she laughed and said most mums wished they had this problem! She reassured me that my baby was content and that she’d let me know if she wasn’t. She was right, she thrived on long feeds and long sleeps. I used to basically feed her non-stop I; the evenings in the hope she’d sleep well at night and it worked.

Also, you may not need to express. I never bothered, it’s harder to get milk out that way thn your baby sucking on your breast and it’s a load of faff with all the sterilising.

It’s really early days, I wouldn’t worry too much about her losing some weight at first, most babies lose weight in their first week and pick it up later.

You’re doing a great job OP, sorry you feel so stressed

I’d like to add that you sound like a great Mum. Taking the time to consider all options and deliberate shows that you have your baby’s best interests at heart.

So much better than the new mother in the ward last week as my wife who instantly rejected breastfeeding, had her husband bring in McDonalds, refused the help offered to quit smoking and couldn’t wait for vodka.

I felt saying ‘good luck’ to that poor kid. Especially when the father called them a ‘smelly turd’.

Repeating what others have said - get some expert breastfeeding advice. Midwives are wonderful at getting the baby out but in my experience they don’t have the training knowlegdge, experience or time to really help (thou I’d be very shocked at one of them saying the only help they can give is get a bottle )
You should be feeding more than every three hours at this point - a formula fed baby would be every three hours - breastfed is more as your baby is putting in her order for more milk. Also if your other child had a tongue tie it’s very likely this one does too so get her checked by everyone you one across - we had one that wasn’t diagnosed for 4 weeks despite me saying I knew she had one on day 1 and had been checekd numerous times - took a lacy action consultant to find it and once it was snipped it changed everything!
In your position I would get he tv moved into the bedroom and take to my bed with baby - get the room nice and warm and take off both of your tops and gets some skin to skin ( really helps with milk production - you’d be amazed how much) and feed and sleep and feed and sleep. Stay there for 24 hours at least if you can with no visitors, get dh to bring food etc - you’re 8 days after having a baby - you shouldn’t be thinking of anyone except you and the baby (and your other child of course can come in for some cuddles too). Take the time now and it will help massively down the line. If you can resist formula top ups it would be better as they send them into a comatose sleep because it is much for a baby to digest - it’s not necessarily a good thing that they are sleeping if you see what I mean - it doesn’t mean they were starving before just that they are digesting something new and that the bottle is easier to drink from than the breast - again not a good thing. Even if you’ve decided to mix feed you’re better holding off until you have got your milk supply as established as possible - remember your breasts are never empty - just keep feeding and they’ll be getting milk as your breasts make it constantly as long as it’s being taken - supply and demand.
Good luck and don’t beat yourself up whatever you do - you’re doing your best.

Good for you OP, It gets easier every day from here

So many lovely replies.

It really is encouraging to hear your stories.

Last night and today (so far) has gone well with feeding at the breast as well as one formula top up. Notice she won't take the bottle from me though! She knows I've got the good stuff

Seems pretty content

Oh my word she's gorgeous!

Can I say, please please please don't express if you're happy with the occasional bottle of formula? It's just extra work and stress and that is the last thing you need. Just put her to the breast as often as you can. Nothing imporoves supply like a rooting baby! And enjoy watching you dp giving her a bottle sometimes. Never do it yourself because you want her to associate you exclusively with bf and also because that's a good time for you to breathe!

Yes to everything Bertrand just said and also 😍😍😍😍 to your precious little squish!!! She's gorgeous. And congratulations!

She is beautiful OP!

When I was a girl midwife I worked with a community midwife who said to all the mothers,’Eat well, drink well and rest well.’ 9/10 the rest would follow.

Your body has been through a real and significant trauma. Please slow right down, stay in your PJs and think in terms of one feed at a time. Your baby looks absolutely content and well nourished. Let her take the lead and remember that feeding tends to take a bit longer to establish after a CS so your milk may not even be fully in yet, or only just.

Feed on demand and only offer the top up if she’s really not settling. I can’t see the need to pump at all if you are feeding on the breast so frequently. Some babies, mine included, often slept for longer than three hours. So long as the weight creeps up slowly she will regain in her own time.

Enjoy the cuddles and trust your instinct. And remember those three little rules from my distant past.

Oh lord she is beautiful 😍

Thank you. I think she's pretty wonderful but I'm biased

Feel like we have had a positive day. Had her first bath (the shame when she's over a week old!) and she loved it! Lots of leg kicking and splashing.

Midwife is coming tomorrow to weigh her again so fingers crossed we have put on a bit more.

Huge thanks again to everyone who had taken the time to reply. Sharing your experiences had given me such a lift and the confidence to keep going with a bit of extra help. Like so many pps have said, it doesn't have to be all or nothing.

She is beautiful.
I think it's actually recommended not to bath babies too quickly now. My second got to 10 days before we did I think!

I don’t think we gave DS his first bath for a few weeks We did of course wash him before that!

Well done to you OP. You sound so much happier. Your baby is beautiful and looks pretty well-nourished to me! And very content!