To pump or move to bottles..? Feeling sad and desperate

[igotdaboobies]

I don't know what to do... baby is 8days old and I have been breastfeeding so far but just really doubting whether I am doing so effectively.
Will try to be concise with background info:

Born via elective c section

Birth weight 9lb 8oz
Sent home from hospital feeding well on day 2

Readmitted day 3 after dreadful pain and bleeding from incision- wound was infected.

On IV antibiotics and stronger pain killers in hospital.

Had some excellent support with feeding from midwives in hospital as well as some awful, unhelpful nurses who said they couldn't do anything to help me other than get me a bottle. This is while I had a cannula in the back of my hand so really struggled with positioning while baby was screaming and I was getting really emotional. Cannula ended up being torn out by the way.

Baby weighed in hospital after I reminded them she was day 5 and she had lost 11% of birth weight.

I said she hadn't pooed in 3 days and midwife suggested my husband comes back (this was in the middle of the night) and take her to A and E because of this. Really worried by this point that something is wrong with my baby. Then midwife changed her mind and said that maybe it was okay because I was breastfeeding.

Put on a feeding plan to wake baby every 3 hours to get her to feed and used pump to then top up feeds with a cup. This was after doctor had suggested formula but I requested to try pump first.

Sent home again after infection markers had lowered and wound was okay and moved to oral antibiotics and paracetamol and ibuprofen.

Community midwife came day after I was home and said keep just feeding every three hours and we would see the next day if she was putting on weight.

Baby just been weighed and loss has now gone down to 10% so she put 1% back on in 2-3 days (since she was weighed in the middle of the night between day 5&6).

I have been doing the feeds every 3 hours. She can be difficult to wake up to feed- I change her nappy and sometimes strip her off to try to rouse her. She feeds for around an hour from both breasts before falling back to sleep. Sometimes she will feed for much longer- two hours and still seems unsatisfied. My husband went out yesterday morning and bought some formula to give a top up feed with a bottle, which she took without any problem and then fell asleep satisfied.

I don't know how to go forward. My husband would clearly advocate just moving to bottles full time, as would other friends and family who have said about it being easier, being able to see what the baby is getting etc - all valid and reasonable points.

Or do I buy a pump (and if so, which one?! They're not cheap!) and try to persevere with breastfeeding?

I forgot to add that with DD1, I tried and gave up after 3 days as it was too sore (turned out she had a tongue tie) so I really wanted to persevere this time.

I'm becoming really sad, stressed and emotional. I'm worried that my baby isn't getting enough nourishment and feel desperately guilty about that. Is it selfish to try to continue with the breast if this is the case?

Any advice would be much appreciated. Sorry this is so long!

Relax, trust your instincts. It might help to feed on demand, instead of every three hours. A baby waking up when it is hungry won't starve. It seems to me that waking it every three hours is disturbing a natural rhythmn, that you and your baby could establish. Breast feeding is difficult to establish, your nipples feel like glass etc. before they toughten up and you get going. It's worth it though. I usually ignored the nurses and did it my way, it was so difficult being told "that's wrong", try again. Good enough is good enough. Long feeds can also be about the baby's need to bond and be securely held. I remember sated, sleeping babies, shaking themselves awake and latching on again or doing a head bobbing motion in their sleep, because feeding is comforting. Lots of nurses don't approve of breast feeding, people offering bottles are probably trying to ease your comfort after such a hard birth experience. Be kind to yourself, all will be well.

My big fat baby wasn't particularly interested in feeding often to begin with...I think the big ones have more fat stored - so it kind of makes sense.

Wet nappies is the crucial diagnostic.

If I were in your position I would switch to formula feeding merely because I also had a csection and recovery from infection takes it out of you. Formula feeding would probably make life easier. Please don’t feel guilty about it, if that’s the way you choose. I tore myself up for switching the formula. In reality it was the best decision for my family and down the line no one will ever be able to tell what you did.

It really doesn't have to be an either option - you can do both types of feeding. I mixed fed my youngest from day 1 and she breastfed until 3 years old! Obviously she only had 1 or 2 small bottles of formula a day but she breastfed so often as well that it didn't effect supply whatsoever. As long as the baby feeds regularly your supply will stay up.
For me it was absolutely the best option - I didn't want to breastfeed straight after a section and going forward I wanted someone else to be able to feed her at least once a day.

Pumping is viable!
I couldn't manage to BF either of my twins but was determined to give BM so pumped every 3h with a hospital grade double pump - same frequency as you would feed the baby.
I managed to produce enough to feed them BM only for 3+ months, which was my goal.

If you can I would urge to persevere with the breastfeeding and try pumping. A really good thing to do is take a ’babymoon’ wothyour baby. Just go to bed, do nothing except loads of skin to skin, cuddles and feeding. Feed baby on demand and not on a schedule (maybe the 3 hours is because you’re to wake baby?). You sound like you want to keep going and just need some encouragement.

I'm so sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. I had a hard time feeding dd1. If I had my time over again, I would have paid a well qualified and recommended bf consultant to visit me earlier, hired a hospital grade pump, taken fenugreek (worked fabulously for supply for dd2&3), and taken a baby moon. Set yourself up for 2+ weeks of spending all day and night laying in bed skin to skin, or making a nest on the sofa and feeding at least every 2 hours, with 6 pumping sessions. Ff top ups to a minimum. I know this sounds intense, and it is, so be prepare to ask for all help possible domestically and remember that 2 weeks is really a short time. If after throwing everything at it, it is still not getting better, switch to ff and do not feel guilty. I know that can be hard (I really know) but really don't.
Good luck!

If you can I would urge to persevere with the breastfeeding and try pumping. A really good thing to do is take a ’babymoon’ wothyour baby. Just go to bed, do nothing except loads of skin to skin, cuddles and feeding. Feed baby on demand and not on a schedule (maybe the 3 hours is because you’re to wake baby?). You sound like you want to keep going and just need some encouragement.

Feed on demand, get baby checked for tongue tie by the infant feeding specialist (your HV will know how to contact, if not, your local breastfeeding support group will.) They will also know if/where you can hire a hospital grade pump from. I would encourage you to persevere, it sounds like you want too, this bit is the hardest, you're exhausted from birth, just getting over the actual birthday but the adrenaline is wearing off. Lots of skin to skin. Do you have a soft wrap sling? V-pillow? Lots of fluids and being fed, be looked after.

(I have a Medela swing, if you're in the NW I'm happy to lend it to you, they're not cheap.)

Sorry your having such a rough time. There are no right or wrong ways to feed your baby you have to do what's best for you and your family. I struggled with this myself recently and was in tears at every feed with the pain ( counterproductive to milk supply) which would last up to two and a half hours and she was still losing weight! I now express for her and top up with formula when needed . I bought the medela swing off Amazon which i have no complaints with. You'll find what works for you both. Congratulations on your baby!

8 days is very early, agree with PP to get breast feeding advice. It can take a while and if you're really set on it then keep going. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it properly and one midwife said to give it 6 weeks minimum and I definitely felt I had it down by then.

No one really says how hard it is and bottles/ff is great too, it just depends on what you want.

Family are trying to support but stick to your guns if you feel pressured. I think it can take a while x

OP, do what will make you happy.

When DS was born (emcs, 36+5) o was determined to bf. The hospital really supported this. By day 7 we were still in hospital and DS has lost 26% of his birth weight. I was crying my eyes out, and the paediatrician was about to move us to SCBU. I was struggling with bf and pumping/cup feeding.

The lovely midwife (who had arranged a La Leche League lady yo visit me) asked if she might try a bottle. Half an hour later she bought a happy sleeping boy back to me!

I ff from that moment on. I went through gallons of guilt, but never, never questioned that it was the right choice. DS and I were both far happier with formula. He is 9.5 now, extremely tall, fairly bright and superb on a Mountainbike and a guitar.

A few weeks after DS was born, we had an NCT reunion. I was gearing up to defend myself against formula, but it wasn’t necessary. The NCT course leader says to me “there are many ways to nurture a baby, how you feed them is just one of them”.

Has the baby seen a doctor? The only important thing is that the baby is fed and is gaining and most importantly recovers birth weight. As an outsider it looks to me like haut means for now supplementing after breast feeds. Once good growth and weight gain is established, then you can look at dropping the supplements and moving to exclusive breastfeeding if that it what you would like.

A sleepy baby, not gaining weight and not feeding frequently and with very infrequent bowel movements sounds like a high risk candidate for jaundice. I would strongly advise a doctor. I'm not sure your community midwife is taking this seriously enough.

I'd also take huge caution about the advice to "baby moon" or whatever. You have at least two really big factors for developing blood clots in your legs - recent birth and surgery. You need to make sure you are not in an immobile or cramped position and to move around regularly.

Overall, please get the baby seen by a doctor to rule out jaundice and to agree a feeding plan. It may well be that in time exclusively breastfeeding will work for you both. But right now it doesn't appear to be optimal so you need to do whatever needs to be done to ensure your baby is adequately and fully fed right now (be it expressed milk or formula, in addition to BF) and once that hurdle is crossed, in a few days or weeks, then look at moving to EBF if you like.

I had similar with my baby. She would latch nicely but only now suck for a few seconds. A midwife suggested a nipple shield as can help baby to get a good latch as a bit more to get hold of! To keep her weight up, she was put to breastfeed every 3 hours then topped up with about 30-6ml formula until her weight picked up. My first baby would not latch at all and I pumped like mad! It was exhausting and I wish I'd gone straight to formula and spent my time snuggling him rather than pumping! Either way - do what suits you with no guilt! New babies are hard enough without us putting more pressure on ourselves. Enjoy your baby! X if

Stop. Take 5 minutes. What do you want? Not HCPs, Partners or family.

Feed your baby and they will thrive. How is about what works and is managable for you.

I have done both bf and ff. I refused to pump - it is super hard work and I knew I couldn't cope. For me, bf was harder for the first few weeks but then easier for months but whether that is true for you depends on your situation.

bf babies needs to feed ALOT for long periods at the beginning - this is a good thing and not a sign they are not getting enough. If getting to a physical support group is tough try online/phone. I found the facebook groups helpful and the advice line in the early days as no way was I leaving the house.

I am very comfortable I made the right decisions for my family, including me, at the times I made them. You can do this too.

Hi OP your local childrens centre will most likely have latch on groups. Ask your midwife or HV for the info.

It is absolutely normal breastfed babies no to poo often but at this age she should be having lots of wet nappies.

If your are geniunly worried then there is no harm on formula tops up but offer breast first if you want to continue.

My DD was a bigger baby and lost 10% in the first 5 days with some jaundice. My milk came in on day 6 and she shot right back up. Woth c sections sometimes it takes a bit longer for milk to come in. Do lots of skin to skin with baby, you need to drink lots of water and maybe try eating oats.

My breast milk suddenly dried up on day 5/6. I cried down the phone to the Midwife and they lent me an ardo calypso and it was fab! I was told by the Midwife to feed every three hours and ended up BF my DD, giving her milk I had expressed and/or formula, and then pumping every three hours. Over the week my supply increased and my DD went back up to birth weight then I was able to BF more (as DD was no longer sleepy and jaundiced) and could gradually reduce the pumping and top ups.

Can your Midwife lend you a pump so you can find out if it suits you?

Can you ask your Midwife to refer you to their infant feeding co-ordinator (or whatever they are called in your trust ) to help you with BF (if you decide to continue)

Your story has so many similarities to mine. I hired a medula double hospital grade and pumped. Ended up stopping as I wasn't well and it all became too much. (Trying to care for toddler also/ had mastitis) Relactated at 15 weeks and mix fed for a few months. Do what you feel best for your health. Baby will be fine.

Feeding in demand is less stressful as your baby is at least awake first feed.Mine fell asleep on the breast often and often slept for more or less than 3 hours,it goes a bit haywire at 6 weeks when the baby wants to feed non stop,you think you haven't enough milk despite leaking all over the place!Then they tend to find their own rhythm.
Feed when your baby let's you know she needs it,not all feeds are the same length.If your baby's got wet nappies all s well(mine pood as she was born then nothing for 4days but plenty of wet ones).
Relax and get to know her/him.Lots of cuddling and skin to skin will make you both feel better.

Dangerous advice here. It is NOT normal for an 8 day old baby to have several days with no poop. Talk to a doctor.

The Op said this was a issue at first,she is concerned about feeding now and is changing nappies.
Friends and family always think they know best and are doing it to be helpful but talk to your midwife and ina few days your health visitor.They will tell you if they are concerned.See if they know if local support groups for breast feeding,Iive very rurally and even we have one.
You've had a rocky start and it's knocked your confidence.Youve got the normal sheer exhaustion of giving birth with an infection on top.In the end you will find a way and whatever it is it will be right for you.💐and congratulations.

I was in your situation and switched to pumping and giving DS breast milk in a bottle with some formula top up and that worked really well for me. He started putting weight on and I got more rest plus he still had breast milk until 8 months.

The Medela Swing double electric is the best one I found, but the Avent single electric is a good budget option.

If your baby is sleeping for 3 hours it’s very likely she’s getting all the nourishment she needs. She probably doesn’t need the formula top-up, and doing this will reduce the amount your breasts produce. Why not try feeding on demand, and if she wants to feed for 2 hours just go with it? My DD was also 9lb 8oz at birth and she’d happily go 3 hours between feeds, have a really big feed, and sleep the rest of the time. I do think bigger babies are like the equivalent of older babies, they can last longer between feeds and feed more when they have a feed. Btw she slept 6 hours at night at 6 weeks, so I hope that happens for you too!

Echo what the previous posters said about getting BF advice. Don’t agree with your family about FF being easier, there’s all that sterilising and making bottles up, you always have your boobs there ready to go!

Sorry you have had such a rough time

If you want to keep breastfeeding, do. It gets easier I promise!
I had a very similar story to yours. Started out doing one bottle of expressed breast milk a day, but after a while just breastfed as it was easier.
The best pump I used was less than £20 on Amazon. NaturaBond or something similar, just a silicone cup. It got loads of milk out and I could use it hands free.

Huge thank you to all of you for kind and helpful replies. Reading your stories gave me a real lift. Especially the one about your (I'm sorry I can't remember whose) strapping 9 year old boy- he sounds lovely.

I am sorry I have taken ages to reply myself. It's been a rough day!!

Just to clarify/respond to some points made: DD definitely not jaundice, the every three hours was just for when she wasn't waking herself- i would feed her on demand according to her cues.

After much deliberation I have decided to continue feeding on demand and do formula top up feeds without feeling guilty.

I pretty much decided when I went to change her nappy and she hadn't done a wee in three hours (she later delighted me by weeing all over the sofa!) and I just can't handle the stress of worrying that she's dehydrated. Plus I think the pressure I'm putting on myself is just making me sad.

I think the points made about dealing with the aftermath of the section with pain and infection as well as breastfeed perfectly really rang true.

Perhaps it's in my head but I feel like since deciding, my pain is starting to ease and I am moving more freely. I'm wondering whether my anxiety was making it worse.

Maybe with more practice I will be able to ditch the top ups but for now that's the plan!

I think that's a great idea OP. You sound much happier. Keeping your baby fed, in whatever way, is the most important thing, and you have zero reason to feel guilty about any choices that lead to a happy, fed baby. I'm glad you have settled in your own mind and are happy with your plan for the immediate period. I had two very jaundiced babies and supplementing was a necessity for them. For us, combination feeding was a great choice.

I hope you are feeling pain free, better rested and enjoying your lovely baby.