AIBU to hate Forest School?

[thetreelooksnice]

That's it. My kids hate it. They get cold and muddy. It was OK when they were younger but now they want to stay in the warm to study!

They need proper clothing. Thermal base layers, fleece, insulated waterproof coat and trousers. Most cheap UK brands aren't warm enough for being outside for long periods. Try Scandi brands that are designed for cold climates.

ds1 (fifteen) still likes Forest School - probably one of the things he likes best at his school.

He is at a specialist school for children with an ASC and I was a bit alarmed when he first described the tools they used given the pupil profile has not uncommon emotional outbursts but he says the students are generally well behaved there as it is a calming influence. The school use it for him not so much to teach outdoor skills but as a means to address topics such as PSHE which ds1 finds too anxiety making to cope with in an enclosed classroom.

I did snigger though when ds2 (when he was at a different specialist school) did Forest School in the classroom. Somehow I think they missed the point.

"They need proper clothing. Thermal base layers, fleece, insulated waterproof coat and trousers."

Uk benefits are not set at a level that allows for this level of clothing provision. They are set at a level that allows two pairs of cheap joggers, 3 t shirts, a jumper and a jacket from Sports Direct. School uniform is provided with vouchers from the council fulfilled at a local shop. Other than that, if it can't be found in the Salvation Army, they can't have it.

So poor children either can't go, or they go and then are cold, wet and miserable with wet coat and shoes for days after.

Forest school is a lovely idea. Not in February.

My dc only ever talk about toasting marshmallows in the forest although I am sure there is more to it than that.

I don't remember having to provide special clothing. I think I sent in an old pair of wellies that they squeezed into for a couple of years and the school provided the outdoor clothing.

"How do you go to the park etc on wet days?!"

The OP has teenagers and if they are anything like normal, an offer of the park on a wet day, or any other day, would be met with silent scorn and a pointed leaving the room

Teenagers are NORMALLY lazy, apathetic, occasionally rude and scornful of things they perceive as childish or pointless. They aren't bad brought up, it's developmentally normal. The OP's kids are having a normal reaction to adult daft ideas.

I guess its 50/50 with that age group...half are probably 'urgh cold!' but the other half probably love the chance to blow off some steam...especially if they are studying for common entrance.

If anyone is looking for a really warm coat for their DC I got DS one (padded and waterproof) for £7 in tkmaxx. They also had some lovely fleece lined walking boots for girls.

Becotide: Yup. So you'll get loads of colds among the kids, meaning more time off school.

Penggwn, for once I agree with you. Anti-intellectualism is a big problem. Sure, it's good to recognize that not all kids are academically inclined, and that different skills are equally valuable, but a lot of the stuff being described upthread is faddy nonsense, poorly applied and therefore a waste of time.

Penggwn, for once I agree with you. Anti-intellectualism is a big problem. Sure, it's good to recognize that not all kids are academically inclined, and that different skills are equally valuable, but a lot of the stuff being described upthread is faddy nonsense, poorly applied and therefore a waste of time.
Agreeing with both of you here! Well said.

I'm amazed so many state schools have time in the curriculum for forest school. I'd love our primary to do something like this but literally every hour is accounted for. All morning maths and English so everythi ng else fitted into afternoons. Juniors no longer have golden time or enrichment they used to.

I do think it has a place in the pre school years, my child did outdoor activities ( not under a ‘Forest School ‘) within a Steiner school setting at that age. Then it was onto cubs/beavers/scouts which provide all of the outdoor activity and far more besides (hiking, orienteering, geocaching, outdoors, qualifications). Plenty of enthusiastic older children taking part of course.

I homeschool and specifically send my 5yo DS to forest school a couple of days a week as well as regular forest meet-ups, I've given this thread quite a bit of thought. 1. I know there is an adage that there is no bad weather, just bad clothes but I doubt the person who came up with that ever lived through an Irish storm system. There is absolutely weather so bloody miserable that being outside, no matter how well dressed is not something I would insist on for DS. The place he goes to is a dedicated forest and farm school on many acres of forest, with tree houses, rope swing, slides built into hills, etc. But there are also barns, coach houses and rooms in the main house that are warm and suitable for play if the weather is awful. I wouldn't send him somewhere without adequate shelter for when it's needed.

Ultimately, it's really, really important for children to spend as much time in nature as possible. It's something that I don't think has any benefits because being in nature a lot is just baseline but by not having it we lose something really, really important. But the vast majority of animals seek shelter in bad weather, it's natural and normal for humans to want to go inside when it's cold, wet and windy. Some people may enjoy being out in inclement weather but even then only if they are in the mood. It shouldn't be forced on children for arbitrary reasons. If forest school becomes an endurance test for children it achieves the opposite of it's goal and will leave children with a lasting impression that nature is to be avoided.

Tringley: Very true. I have often found that some of the enthusiasm for forcing children outside, especially in bad weather, is actually more about puritanism than anything else. There are still people who are suspicious of comfort and pleasure in any form.

(And I like being outdoors - DS and I are currently on a project to walk the London Loop. We go for a nice 2/3 hour walk and finish up in an equally nice pub or caff for a meal.)

Like many things in life it is just re branding of something common sense most of us do anyway. Some people are making a lot of money out of the training and marketing, but when you get down to what actually happens most of us could go to a wood and make up games without paying for it.

In the sunshine

The OP has teenagers and if they are anything like normal, an offer of the park on a wet day, or any other day, would be met with silent scorn and a pointed leaving the room

I'm pretty sure the OP said they have lots of kit I was referring to other people posting on the thread. I cant imagine life with an under 5 without waterproofs - i can see how you can get by when they are older & dont naturally gravitate to puddles etc also older kids getting wet & cold is less of a problem in general as they can withstand it better than younger children.

I sent my eldest to an outdoor nursery 2 days a week from the age of around 3 - 5: it was the first in the UK I think, or one of the first, based on Scandinavian nurseries. PPs are correct - getting all the proper clobber is expensive: thermal base layers, fleece middle layers, neoprene lined wellies, waterproof fisherman-style dungarees, waterproof jackets, countless hats, scarves and gloves. (we're on the east coast of Scotland)

My daughter absolutely loved it - the nursery owned a big area of woodland with loads of dens in it and trees to climb, and eventually a yurt for really crappy days. But I did sometimes feel a bit guilty on winter days, dropping her off to wait with the others on a frosty morning, before getting back into my car with the heaters on full blast and leaving her there! I wouldn't have sent her full time, though there were a lot of children who did go five days a week.

PPs are correct - getting all the proper clobber is expensive: thermal base layers, fleece middle layers, neoprene lined wellies, waterproof fisherman-style dungarees, waterproof jackets, countless hats, scarves and gloves. (we're on the east coast of Scotland)

It doesn't have to be though. I bought my DS his fleece lined waterproofs and fleece lined muckboots in Lidl when they went on clearance in the spring time. €3.50 for the boots, €5 for the dungarees. I bought the dungarees too big and he's gotten 3 years out of them so far with probably at least one more winter in them. I already have his boots for next year, that I found brand new for €2 in a charity shop and I'll try to pick up dungarees this year that will do him for 7-10.

True enough - I don't think I knew about Lidl sales at the time, so I bought everything online from specialist kids outdoor clothing places. But they did last a long time I guess so I didn't have to replace much.

Done well, I think Forest School is valuable but there are lots of aspects which are faddy and aren't really about the outdoors / wild / forest anyway. (Marshmallows, hot chocolate and fucking fairy doors. Fine line between lovely activity and littering in my view....). Or are a hideous mish mash. A vegetable garden in a forest means either a bad vegetable garden or it's not much of a forest. Why so much emphasis on making seats? If the objective is healthy exercise, you shouldn't be sitting down. It's not sensible to make people sit outside chatting or drawing in sub zero temperatures. You should be moving.

And what is the impact on the air quality of having fires burning all day? It may not have an impact in genuine wilderness, but import it into an ersatz wild place such as most forest school areas are and it will add particulates to the air.

Also the ground is only muddy because it's overpopulated with people. Otherwise it should be leaf litter and/or undergrowth.

Uk benefits are not set at a level that allows for this level of clothing provision. They are set at a level that allows two pairs of cheap joggers, 3 t shirts, a jumper and a jacket from Sports Direct. School uniform is provided with vouchers from the council fulfilled at a local shop. Other than that, if it can't be found in the Salvation Army, they can't have it

That's really sad. I always thought benefits would cover warm outdoor clothes for children, especially in a cold wet climate like the UK, where appropriate clothing is as essential as food and heating. How do children keep warm and dry on walks/school playground etc in winter?

It's worth trying local selling sites or Scandi sites for cheap outdoor clothes. I've bought Lindex coats, Polarn O Pyret ski trousers and merino wool base layers very cheaply, occasionally for the cost of postage if they need mending. If you're willing to sew up holes and overlook mud stains you can get them for under £5. Same with charity shops. The clearance rail in TK max often has cheap Scandi too. I would rather buy good quality secondhand than Primark, it's much warmer and lasts longer.

Sports dir ft base layers are £4
Outdoor camping shops charge peanuts for anoraks to keep winter jackets dry - bigger the better

It's not that expensive