AIBU to hate Forest School?

[thetreelooksnice]

That's it. My kids hate it. They get cold and muddy. It was OK when they were younger but now they want to stay in the warm to study!

Prioritise your pupil premium kids, SEND kids, and other disadvantaged kids. There are plenty of children who don't fit into any of these groups that benefit from forest school. What about the children from really lovely families whose parents just really hate being outdoors and getting mucky?

It's not usually ta h SEN kids and disadvantage kids that need forest school the most

It's usually then spoilt kids who are so self centered they can't be part of a team - they have to be the center - be the best - be the winner - looook and Meeeeeeee

Thy get taken out of their comfort zone and suddenly they (shock horror) can't cope with a bit of dirt and (gosh) wet hair

Certainly mine isn't interested in it. At first he found it fun, but now he finds it boring. He learns better teamwork skills in his football team. (Different but equal roles) I've been as a parent helper and was disappointed in it. Basically it was just kids playing. No instruction. I think their confidence was harmed as they didn't achieve anything - and they knew it. In fact at one point I separated a group of boys fighting.

Maybe if it's done well, with the right age group it could be good, but too often, it's not.

So really the issue isn’t Forest School itself, as has been aptly demonstrated on this thread there are many positive benefits, but Forest School which isn’t run properly. So the issue isn’t Forest School per se but lack of sufficient training/facilities/equipment?

OK

😂

I think we can see that it's hit and miss.
It MAY be positive, or it MAY not.
A concept that isn't introduced reliably and with good standards isn't a good concept. If it needs such high standards to work well, then it's in danger of not actually doing what it's supposed to most of the time.

You wouldn't argue that an car was a really really good design if it broke down very frequently.

You wouldn't argue that an car was a really really good design if it broke down very frequently.

Well, that’s the difference between a concept and a car. A car is an object designed and delivered in a way that makes it very hard to use unless you use the full thing.

Forest school can be applied properly, or it can be used in a half-arsed messing around way under some trees.

A more apt car analogy would be someone taking a car for a drive without oil or brakes, and then expressing surprise that it didn’t do what a car is supposed to do.

Prioritise your pupil premium kids, SEND kids, and other disadvantaged kids. which would stigmatise those children and alienate them from the rest of the class. They would be seen as getting special treatment, or it would be seen as ‘sending the difficult kids off while the bright kids do the proper work’. Terrible idea.

Many employers now talk about how their employees need skills like resilience, creativity, problem solving, collaboration, which focusing solely on exam results just doesn’t provide. Focusing only on desk-based learning of core subjects is pretty short sighted and is not going to help children in the long run. Yes parents can provide these wider skills to some extent, but learning to work with a mix of other children, in an unfamiliar environment, using unfamiliar skills, following instruction from different adults, is going to provide this more effectively.

However in the OPs case if they are just sitting under a tree, then that’s not Forest School, that’s sitting under a tree.

My DS loves FS. They do different projects and then cook marshmallows or daugh on the camp fire.
The only thing I didn't like (I was helping a few times) is the weather as the school does it mostly in winter. The children seem to be fine though.

I don't give that many layers of clothing. Decathlon sells fleece lined trousers, then wellies with wellie liners (again Decathlon sells them) or snow boots/tracking boots, a fleece top under the jacket and a named bag to bring dirty clothes home.

Our children do different projects in groups using sticks, leaves, spades, secateurs, ropes, whatever they can find. It's always so exciting for them.

I don't see the point. Like anything fashions come and go. I didn't get the mud kitchen at nursery either. Personally I get fed up with the fact that DC come home inevitably having stood in dog shite. Does that make me a bad mother??

I remember the mud kitchens, codswallop

If they did it at our school (which thankfully they don't) I can just imagine the outcry if parents were expected to fork out for fleece lined trousers etc
Many employers now talk about how their employees need skills like resilience, creativity, problem solving, collaboration, which focusing solely on exam results just doesn’t provide.

These are the ideas behind Curriculum for Excellence and it's a heap of shite too. Standards in Scotland are plummeting due to this nonsense. Sadly all of us dinosaurs who have been teaching for ever knew that it would be

Mud kitchens are ace

Kids aren't allowed to get muddy and dirty they live in clean homes and bath sonoftwn they don't build resilience to germs

Parents faff with the baby wipes

Kids can't eat anymore without someone whipping out a cloth to clean their hands and face - no wonder they refuse certain foods

But how do you KNOW the academic kids aren’t taken anywhere outdoors? It’s assuming quite a lot.

My own kids are academic. They also like the outdoors . They’ve done all the den building, rope swing and camp fire building/marshmallow on a stick stuff either with us at weekends, pond dipping etc on holidays, or at PGL. Bug hunting and leaf identification/Conker collecting at nursery. They do enjoy it/used to enjoy it.

I think most kids do enjoy that and have already done it recreationally in school holidays/at weekends. They’re not going to turn down doing it in school as well cos most find it fun. But if they’ve already learned those skills outside school I would prefer they learned academic stuff IN school.

I know what you’re saying about not wanting to stigmatise SEND and disadvantaged kids by only offering it to them, but these are more likely to be the kids who ARENT taken out by parents to eg a National Trust property, or even just pond dipping at their local park.

Haveing SEN doesn't make you disadvantaged - it makes you work harder to keep up.

Being half way down the the sets doesn't make your parents lock you up and not take you to f'in museums and parks - although a lot of parents wish you would (how dare they go to school and be in X's class??)

That's right trot the poor dears off to the wild life centre whilst we get on with a few sums bless

Get rid of the attitude and start treating kids as equals.

We can't all be brain surgeons can we? Someone has to keep the streets clean.

GreenTulips, you have completely misunderstood where I’m coming from. perhaps you don’t work in the type of secondary school I do. The type of disadvantaged kids I’m talking about are lucky if they get fed at all at home or have a pair of school shoes to wear. Some have to make up a bottle and feed their baby sister. Some have Mothers with mental health problems who never open the curtains never mind take them outside to hunt for bugs. Some are constantly anxious bevUs their mum’s new partner has already punched them a few times and is now threatening to push them down the stairs.

I seriously think you need to get rid of YOUR attitude. I’m not talking about middle set kids here. I’m talking about kids who have the most shocking home backgrounds imaginable and who DESERVE the same opportunities as kids who are being taken out by their parents at weekends.

If school funding carries in being the issue it is now, I absolutely think that forest schools should not be for ALL kids . The kids who have already had the advantage of pond dipping and the like will just deflate the excitement and confident of those who haven’t. You can imagine some smug Tarquin running over to a classmate and saying “oh I’ve done this, you don’t do it like that.” Etc etc.

schools are already having to prove to Ofsted what they are doing to aid disadvantaged kids. Forest school would be ideal as a project specifically for that group.

Oh, and SEND absolutely ARE disadvantaged. They are held back by their specific issues unless they are helped to overcome them. A kid who has major sensory issues would never have chosen to get their hands muddy outside of school . A great TA and a trip to Forest School with a great FS leader could help to encourage them to try to not let their sensory issues hold them back.

I think a PE lesson would be a great lesson for the disadvantaged pupils to participate in first school without accusations of stigmatising them etc

Fleece lined trousers aren't too expensive if on sale. Around a fiver and my DS wears them in winter nearly every time we are outdoors so money aren't wasted. If you don't have them then any old trousers will do the job. Alternative a few shops sell thin overtrousers for a few pounds which could be worn any season. Someone said earlier in the thread that they don't want to spent money on clothes just for the Forest School. It's not like World Book Day where children get encouraged to wear a fancy costume. Those costumes can be quite pricey (E.g. Lego, minecraft etc) and just for one day.

Middle Class? not at our nursery, or in any of the other Forest School settings that we visited actually. Children from just about all backgrounds were having a ball. Yes it was a bit cold but the children were dressed correctly and the teachers were really good at explaining everything. Forest School is about building a bigger stronger foundation. Making them tougher and more resilient, able to tackle problems. A male Nursery teacher said to us ; " if you could fast forward a few years, and you could choose, would you want your child to be the playground bully, the bullied child or the problem solver and negotiator" Brilliant! On the other hand if you want overweight, under motivated and stressed children, keep them in super heated classrooms where bugs and germs breed freely..Its up to you.

I think the thing I find depressing about this thread is the idea it's so weird and unnecessary to learn in an environment other than the classroom, whereas surely the weird thing is the idea that children need to be cooped up in the same location all week in order to learn. The post where someone asked why the teaching of bug biology couldn't be done in the classroom just summed it up really. Shouldn't the question be why English literature can't be taught on the beach?