AIBU to hate Forest School?

[thetreelooksnice]

That's it. My kids hate it. They get cold and muddy. It was OK when they were younger but now they want to stay in the warm to study!

..aaaand we're back full circle to the argument that kids don't now how to sit in a classroom and study these days!

I follow a lot of Ed Psych pages on FB. This was shared this morning returntonow.net/2018/01/20/outdoor-lessons-double-students-attention-span-study-finds/

But I could have posted one of any number of studies pointing to the benefits - for mental health, for academic achievement, for physical health - of children spending time outdoors - even if all they are doing is playing freely.

*know

Yes, children CAN do the same at Cubs / Woodcraft Folk etc. However, the families for whom FS has the greatest benefit are almost certainly not those who get their children onto the waiting list fr Cubs at 4, who will buy the uniform and sew on the badges, who will get them to meetings every week.

I'm intrigued as to what kind of families those who certainly don't have their child's name down for cubs at 4 are?

Both of mine would've hated cubs and even if they would've loved it, in our area it seems to be a bit of secret society to get into it in the first place so near impossible of you don't personally know those running it. I'm really not sure why it's a superiority thing tbh.

I was sent along as a kid and despised every moment because it didn't interest me in the slightest, we didn't have forest school then and somehow I seem to function as an adult.

.aaaand we're back full circle to the argument that kids don't now how to sit in a classroom and study these days!

As I have said, OP, in your case I don't think this is a reasonable argument to apply to your privileged, rural, academic, privately-educated, neurotypical, non-SEN children with highly supportive parents who both support academic work and expose them to outdoor exercise.

So I agree with your initial premise that FOR YOUR CHILDREN it isn't worthwhile.

However, for a 5 year old with no previous school or pre-school education, who have had a life to date that is almost entirely free of discipline or structure, and have parents who are poorly educated or non-school supporting themselves, Forest School can be an important bridge, within the school day, to the alien (to them) world of sitting still, accepting adult instruction / guidance, developing fine motor skills and controlling gross motor skills, deferring gratification, taking turns, sharing.

So it is not a REPLACEMENT for sitting still and learning, but in some cases very useful PREPARATION for sitting still and learning.

AuntFannay,

The children who benefitted most from FS where I worked (and who i was thinking of in my post) were children who lived in entrenched rural poverty - Traveller children, children of addicts to various substances, children whose parents worked several jobs night and day and so relied mainly on screens to childmind and pacify their children, children of parents with SEN who despite the best intentions didn't parent effectively, children whose family life was the chaos of a temporary bed-and-breakfast home, children of prisoners.

Yes, it was an exciting, though often distressing, place to work.

None of those could possibly have managed the application process, let alone the attendance process, for Cubs / Woodcraft folk or any similar organisation.

I wouldn't have as much dislike of it if it was for nursery or ks1 kids. But ours do it throughout, up to and including ks2 years. I think a lot of the stuff is repeated, and really quite young. I've watched mine make a den, repeatedly.

God this is a depressing thread. Childhood, and life, is precious short - who gives a shit if sitting practising handwriting would be a more productive use of their time?

God this is a depressing thread. Childhood, and life, is precious short - who gives a shit if sitting practising handwriting would be a more productive use of their time?

My kids don't get to go to forest school as often as they would like due to restrictions in school and the sheer amount of kids the school has to cater for.
It does sound, as a pp said, that you're expecting the school to provide these experiences. Why say the above, why would it matter, if you're also a 'forest leader' yourself...

no idea what it is

None of those could possibly have managed the application process, let alone the attendance process, for Cubs / Woodcraft folk or any similar organisation

Just want to say that applying for Cubs is not that onerous at all, but appreciate the sentiment.

Lots of families spend time with their kids outdoors

It's not the same as spending time outdoors with your friends - learning together.

It's a whole new experince.

I'd agree with confidence building leadership skills, being aware of danger, team players, workers, all together to have one goal

Maths and literacy are very individual targets - there no one single group target that you are working together to achieve

It's different

Please ask to volunteer as a parent helper and see what they are doing

I doubt schools can afford to do this much longer

Could someone tell me the actual skills which are acquired through the fake den-building? By “fake”, I mean, it’s not an actual survival shelter, as admitted by a forest school teacher upthread, who described a child’s door on the den as draughty. I’ve seen them before and they’re usually a few sticks leaning against something. No actual shelter from the elements a la Ray Mears or Bear Grylls.

I totally get that building a den is fun. In the same way as building a den from a dining table with a few king-sized sheets over the top and some cushions and lemonade inside is fun.

But the “skills” seem quite basic. Ie listening to instructions, counting the right number of sticks, making choices about length of stick, working in pairs etc.

They are actually quite basic “skills”, those.

Believeitornot,

I know that the application for Cubs isn't, to most people that onerous - but for families who are illiterate or subliterate, moving from temporary home to temporary home, not aware that Cubs exists let alone where and when it takes place (and that in some places you have to apply many years in advance), even the fairly straightforward process just won't happen.

To give you some indication, the school used to fill in application forms for entry when new pupils (for reception or otherwise) turned up at the door assuming they would start that day, and would fill in applications for the next stage of schooling with / for a large proportion of those in the final year, not to mention forms for free school meals, registering for doctors and dentists etc - it was part of our routine work.

They are actually quite basic “skills”, those

For some children yes they are basic - for others incredibly difficult

But the “skills” seem quite basic. Ie listening to instructions .... working in pairs etc.

When would you expect to see those 'basic' skills mastered? I teach upper KS2, and it is common for children - of all abilities - to lack one or both of those skills.

The Op said her children were secondary age. They’ve got basic skills by then, surely? I can see some children would enjoy it but mine weren’t really into this. One DD hated getting dirty. Still does!

The cost of the kit suggested by posters so the children aren’t cold was mega bucks. No wonder this isn’t universally popular. It’s expensive. Lots of parents don’t buy outdoor kit because the children don’t normally use it and it’s a vast added expense for several children. Like most ideas it’s great for families with spare cash, who could do these activities anyway!

Bubbles,

IME the school has provided all equipment with the exception of shoes (or rather, the school has provided wellies, but some children have chosen to wear alternative shoes e.g. walking boots). It's a one-off expense for the school, with occasional top-ups, but it means that all children can access it.

On the one hand posters say their kids do all this stuff anyway and on the other hand day that investing in outdoor clothing is a waste as it won't get used.

Could someone tell me the actual skills which are acquired

Confidence and teamwork mostly, but it varies on who runs your forest school and the age and needs of the children.

In the lower years counting sticks, working out lengths, painting with mud, working out how to make things with sticks themselves etc are all quite good skills, we also spend a lot of time looking at wildlife, bugs, how the seasons change etc, I've had some fascinating conversations with children who have asked why plants have roots or how a worm moves with no legs, and the other week there was a whole fascinating conversation about why insects are important. Higher years our forest school leader teaches them all sorts of skills and if they are making a den will teach them how to do it properly, He's better than Ray Mears and Bear Grylls.

I work with children with some quite complex needs, forest school has given us some great break-throughs, not because of skills we've learned there but because its given us a chance to build up a relationship and a different environment to in the classroom, its let me see their interests and skills I wouldn't have known about otherwise and gives me something to build on. I've seen it work for children with a difficult home life too, just a chance to be children is all some children need. Of course it helps that our forest school leader is amazing, not all forest schools are equal just the same as not all schools are.

“For some children yes they are basic - for others incredibly difficult”

Then choose the children who need to develop those skills to take part in forest school. Surely a better distribution of funds. a lot of kids will already have mastered those skills by end of KS1, by doing that sort of activity with parents and friends in their leisure time. For the ones that don’t get that opportunity then forest school is great, I’m sure. Prioritise your pupil premium kids, SEND kids, and other disadvantaged kids.

not all forest schools are equal just the same as not all schools are.

Absolutely this ^

Prioritise your pupil premium kids, SEND kids, and other disadvantaged kids.

Actually, some of the children who most lack basic listening / team,work skills - at least in KS2 - are absolutely not those with SEND, or disadvantaged....

So if you are seeking to promote teamwork and listening skills through Forest School, you would choose a COMPLETELY different set of pupils to the ones you would choose if you were seeking to promote engagement with school and learning.

Or you could do Forest school for all, but plan activties carefully so each child gets what he / she most needs...