School Mum 'cliques'

[sunshinestorm]

Just off the back of another thread and out of curiosity... I hear a lot of people talking about cliques in the playground at school run time. Is this only a thing in larger primary schools? My DS's school is fairly small (one single class of around 30 per year group) which doesn't give enough scope for cliques to really form in my opinion as there aren't enough parents per year group, especially when you take into account quite a few parents work so alternate between Mum and dad who does the pick up/grandparent or childminder does the pick up.. it just means there aren't these armies of intimidating mums I seem to read about?

oh mommy, there's a mum at my school who has many adorable, incredibly clever, overachieving, kind, well-mannered lovely children - I have to refrain from stalking her to see how she does it, I'm fascinated. I have figured out that bribing my children with chocolate is probably not a parenting habit she adopts! I hear tell that she also has a lovely house :)

I think one way of dealing with 'cliques' is to pity the mainly women who have nothing better to do then preen about in the playground as if they were teenagers. If you really have the energy or the time to be a twat and a bully on that basis you really need to get a hobby!

Well smug is highly subjective but the “frown” she gives you Mommy is probably just in response to your seething glare.

Try smiling next time.

thinking how long did you volunteer at the PTA for? Friendships don't happen overnight.

There is a noticeable clique for DD1s class. It's a formidable one too and is made up of 3 consultants, a headteacher a BBC reporter and 2 GPs. It's a good state school, not private.

They think we're plebs not fit to polish their silverware. Their children act as though the school is there for their ego and the school panders to it terribly

In short they are horrible to anyone outside their clique as are their children.

I was dreading DD2 starting the same school and the same old nonsense happening...except it didn't. The parents are just normal, people gravitate in friendship groups but there's no exclusion, snideness or judging looks at all.

I'm so happy it's DD1s last year in primary. I'll only have to deal with parents of her friends from then on.

I don’t think we have cliques at our school. Some of the parents have simply been good friends for years (before even the children started school) but I don’t think anyone is unwelcoming. I always just chat to whoever I’m standing next to a drop off/pick up time.

It goes on everywhere - my face has never fitted so i have been the one hanging around the back.
Worst clique ever was when I met Dh and all his friends had known each other from birth ( dh was more friend of a friend, but became part of the pack from 16 onwards and was best mates with the men and the women ) the women were not friendly, made it clear they didnt like me and only tolerated me because i was seeing ( then married) dh. they made life very awkward and would have been the lot of at school you would have just avoided as they were so close and their families all knew each other and they lived 5 mins from each other and it was a 'pack ' mentality. I do laugh about it now, but the hostility was awful at the time. I think, because of this, i learnt not to get too involved with any school cliques and just drop off and pick up the kids in my time and do my own thing! makes life a lot easier. I was glad when the kids could go on their own. even better. had to laugh at koala though, that sounds about right for where i live now. I think that women tend to do this more than men and alpha mums do exist.

Not sure if it was my thread that prompted this post OP however I definitely feel there are cliques at school and I think it’s easy for people to say ‘we are just friends talking’ when you are part of that group.

It’s another thing entirely when you are on the outside of that friendship group, trying make eye contact and to say hello to people who perpetually turn their backs to you.

It hurts.

A bit of kindness would make a huge difference to us standing on the outside.

No one gets ignored at our PTA. The people who run it are delighted to have anyone help and very welcoming. I think the chair might know the name of every parent in the school.

I have always found someone to chat to that I like and get on with. Does that make me cliquey? I don't think so. I mean I'm not going to stand and chat with someone who I don't particularly like am I?

I was dreading this as I'm happy standing myself but not if EVERYONE else is in groups chatting. Thankfully DS primary school doesn't have cliques at all. A third of the parents are dads which is great as it stops the whole 'we're all women so must form tribes' thing, and lots of grandparents who are up for chatting to anyone. In the younger years you queue up anyway so groups can't form.

DS' school has cliques. I have had every 'Hello', smile etc ignored since nursery. They even have their space on the playground and there is much fun to be had watching them if someone else is in their spotmay have been me a few times

I have reached the point I truly don't care now but it was bloody hurtful

What I don't get about these threads is that the people who think there are cliques always describe the clique members in quite derogatory terms - ie they don't talk, they glare etc. What I wonder is, if they're such horrible people, why are you even bothered about them?? Why not just ignore them entirely??

I have sympathy for people who struggle to make friends - it must be tough. I don't have many school mum friends but that's mainly because I'm not bothered - I have plenty of other friends and no time really to give to anyone new. I do smile and chat to whoever happens to be there. It's not my duty though to seek out people and make an effort to include them - if someone wants to talk to me they can go ahead and do it but I'm not going to make a special effort to find people who might or might not be lonely and make them feel better - why would I? How do I know whether that mum is standing alone because she's shy or because she doesn't want to talk??

If you want to make friends you have to make that happen. No one is going to do it for you.

Ours go on holiday together and no longer talk to me!! I find it daft really. Hate school gates.

What I don't get about these threads is that the people who think there are cliques always describe the clique members in quite derogatory terms - ie they don't talk, they glare etc. What I wonder is, if they're such horrible people, why are you even bothered about them?? Why not just ignore them entirely??

Very good point!

Clique is a ridiculous word.

It's just groups of people who know each other better than they know the others.

If folk are intimidated by that, that's their problem, but in no other social circumstance do we expect groups of friends to automatically open themselves up to newcomers, to look for stragglers and take them in, why do we expect groups of people to do it in a school yard?

If you were in a bar with a group of friends and someone came up to sit at your table to try to join in the conversation, you'd think them strange and be a bit wary. Why is it expected that someone doing the same at school is entirely acceptable and if you refuse to engage with them you are automatically in a clique?

If you are on the outside looking in and find that to be a problem, then go find your own friends.

Thistlebelle I have tried smiling at SmugMum. Sometimes she would smile back and sometimes she would look at me like she'd just smelled a turd. I got a little tired of the hot and cold treatment (while noticing that there were others with whom she was always warm) so I stopped being friendly myself.

I totally accept however, that a lot of the problem is mine, and my own insecurity. I felt deeply unpopular when I was in secondary school. SmugMum is just one of those people who triggers those feelings. At the same time, I can say that there are a couple of mums in DD's year who tell me she makes them feel the same way.

mommy I honestly find it baffling that you would be envious of someone just because they have talented DC/a nice house or whatever. If they're not a nice person then there's absolutely nothing to be envious of.

Baffles me to be honest. I am unmarried, have a shit job and live in a flat above a takeaway. Couldn't care less of anyone else's opinion of me. There's a saying that I completely agree with - Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission.

Mommybunny - if you think she's smug, why do you want anything to do with her? I wouldn't particularly want to be friends with someone who called me SmugMum.

I think a group of Mums become a clique when other mums and children are excluded from the group. No playing, no parties, no “come round for coffee”, just total indifference. It happened at our C of E school because the “Church” Group had a greater say in how the school was run, and knew the Vicar. It was exclusive and you had to go to Church to be part of it.

The other obvious group were the upwardly mobile group whose husbands were professionals but were still climbing the jobs ladder. They used the nursery at the locals independent school but couldn’t afford the fees after that due to big mortgages. They were also parents of the brightest children destined for the grammar schools. No lower achieving child or unskilled parent was going to be invited into that group! Or people who were richer than them because they didn’t like competition for top dog status.

There was also a small Travellers group. Also some parents had been friends since birth. We even had a group of the wives of BBC employees.

The rest of us knew our place. We joined in with the pta, tried our best, and chatted to each other. No lasting friendships for me and I am fairly outgoing and confident. I think it’s quite hard to see your child excluded though.

Original...I understand the point you are making and I know that you have to go out of your way to make friends etc. but these friendships have to form somewhere/people have to get to know each other somehow. I don't think I ever belonged to a group as such but I did have individual friends with dd1...just cant remember how I developed these friendships...probably just got talking...maybe that's the key...just to smile and say hello to everyone then nip in with a bit of conversation if opportunity presents. I feel I missed out when dd2 was a toddler and didn't make any friends/even acquaintances...it is a long story but it was down to ill health and bereavement which made me feel quite insular, it seems my confidence has taken a bit of a battering too and it would be lovely to get to know one or two mums just to have a chat to (and bliss and an added bonus to find another like-minded individual). Most people understandably seem too busy these days to form friendships, I suppose I am wrapped up with my family primarily and I wouldn't make friends with someone just for the sake of it as usually there is common ground or a common need involved but it would be nice to have different people to chat to at the school gate, especially as I am sahm and don't get as much social interaction as I did when I was working (and therefore didn't rely on other forms of socialising very much). Like Mommybunny, I felt deeply unpopular at secondary school and this too has affected my self esteem, I have to push myself to get out there...I know I can do it, it just takes a bit of effort.

Again though Bubbles - what you describe are various groups of not very nice people, or people who have a lot in common with each other but not with you. Why would you want to be part of those groups? Why not just do your own thing?

@NorthernLightsAlways I knew a few of them from the playground and I think they had already, formed an opinion of me, from their behaviour when I went to help.
I'm always quite a friendly person, however I don't tolerate rudeness like that. I usually put effort into friendships, but felt to walk away from the PTA.

A clique is just a group of friends you aren't one of. Yet.

what did they do though thinking? Sometimes people are just busy rather than actively trying to be unfriendly - but maybe there are specific local factors involved where you are, sometimes a couple of not nice people can make all the difference. It's always a struggle to run any events at our school so I'm fairly sure any volunteers are welcomed - in fact, we may scare people away as we're so desperate for help - it's a fine line!