To feel sadness whenever I go on a council estate?

[TheHolyToast]

I was brought up on a huge council estate. It was the happiest time of my life. I used to play out with all the local kids, every night after school and every day during the holidays. The older kids taught me how to ride a bike and i still remember the feeling. The ice cream man used to come around and the siren sent all the kids running to their houses for money. The neighbours thought nothing of feeding kids that were not theirs - you'd simply go back to your friend's house and the mum would be like "so and so's bairn is here, put some extra fish fingers in". We would go and explore the local woods, play in the overgrown gardens of empty houses, everyone was happy and carefree. Everyone was friends.

Then my mum remarried into money and everything changed. All of a sudden it was "common" for kids to play in the street and I was sent to organised clubs instead where I didn't like anyone and they didn't like me. I changed school and the atmosphere was different, everyone compared how much their clothes and holidays cost, nobody just wanted to have fun, it was all about showing off what you had. I started playing truant as I quickly became friendless. There was no more playing in woods, no more "sweet van", god forbid you turn up at someone's house uninvited, you'd be sent straight back home again. I hated it and longed for our old house.

Anyway, 25 years on and I'm a community nurse now. I'm often working on council estates and in particular, my old estate. The sun always seems to be out in these areas, like I remember it.

The other day I went into a house that was identical to my old house. The memories started flooding back. The brown corduroy sofa and cheap mahogany furniture, Jackie from next door and the swinging chair she had attached to the ceiling. I started to feel upset but carried on with my work. Then at 3.30 the kids came bursting in, dropped their bags, announced that they were playing out and the mum shouted "make sure you come home for tea, fish fingers and waffles" then bang. The door shut and I watched the kids running down the garden path with their friends all stood near the gate waiting for them. I ended up quite upset at this point and the poor patient asked if I was ok. I told her her house reminded me of my old house and it was bringing back happy memories. She laughed and said "you lived around here? I thought all you nurses were posh? Surely you can't miss living on here??!" But I really, really do.

Money doesn't bring happiness does it? I feel it's ironic that throughout our lives, the focus seems to be on improving our financial circumstances yet the happiest time of my life was when I was at my poorest.

AIBU to pine for this stuff when it everyone else's eyes, we were just another poor family claiming benefits on a council estate?

I read a bit of history- fiction and non-fiction. I have recently been reading David Kynaston's Modernity Britain and other books in that series about UK from late 40s to late 60s. It contains real life accounts from people who lived in post war council estates and how then life was so much friendlier- even blocks like Park Hill in Sheffield and Quarry Hill in Leeds at first were friendlier happier places. Then industries declined and lack of jobs caused social problems. People living there had mostly been poor before and their jobs were tough but there was a sense of community and people looking out for one's neighbours. Then loss of jobs meant people became depressed, crime rose and people began to feel afraid of their neighbours. I am speaking very generally of course, but i do think times have changed.

But even in more middle class gentrified areas it seems people are more insular. Is it also that we are busier?

I don't think we are busier apart from self imposed busyness. Working class people in the past worked longer hours. And mothers usually worked part time once kids started school - usually only childcare was relatives,so part time work was often all they could physically do.

I grew up on Blackbird Leys (a now fairly notirious estate) in Oxford during the mid 60's to mid 70's. It was brilliant.
My (then single) mum married someone much wealthier and we moved to a lovely house he owned in a country market town and that kind, lovely man then adopted 3 children when he married my mum and we lived a totally different life.
My memories are obviously seen through a childs eyes. No way on gods earth would I want to live there now.
My mum said to me in later years that our new Dad saved us from Blackbird Leys and getting off that estate was the best thing that could have happened for us (I never really understood what she meant really for many years).

Changing times and a more mobile population - there is little sense of community when young people move away for college and work and take their opportunities to travel/see the world. I grew up in suburbia but now live semi rurally. It's good to have choice but obviously there is a downside. Community spirit is alive and kicking in those parts where there are many people who have lived in the same town/area for most of their lives. It's far from cosmopolitan though. You can only have roots if you live in the same area for a long time but people move for jobs. schools, upsize/downside, etc...

I do think also, and I mean no disrespect, TheHolyToast but it is quite natural to look back on childhood with rose tinted glasses. That is not to say I disbelieve your experiences, but we do look at our lives through our own lens. I was very privileged as a child to grow up in a lower middle class housing estate- big garages, big gardens, 70s houses with two loos and avocado bath suites etc were the norm in my street as a child in the 80s-90s growing up there. I remember well, long hot summers playing in the street and eating cornettos and funny feet from the lice cream van, playing out until all hours on my bike, benign neglectful ,mother telling me "as long as you back by nightfall!" But I look back and I remember the occasional female screams from a neighbour's house, and seeing wife and daughters always looking very subdued in her husband's presence. There were those with huge mortgages and another neighbour who died of cancer quite young. As an adult, in hindsight, I realise people on our estate had their problems too

nice ice cream van, not lice

crunchymint I agree totally our busyness is self imposed for the most part. I think it is part of the aspirational lifestyle.

What HesterShaw and bluegreengraycadillac said. Poverty has been shown to have seriously detrimental affects on the people living in it (they have demonstrably shorter life spans and more ill health), on children living in it and on society as a whole. Load of guff 'money doesn't buy happiness'. Always funny how those who spout that are never subsisting on the bones of their arses for what will be probably the entirety of their lives as they really have no way of getting out of it.

And nothing is stopping anyone from giving up most of their salary, earnings, wages, assets and living in poverty if they find it more agreeable.

The guy who would rather go live in a caravan than putting up with this rich wife is free to do just that. A poor person who has to live in that van, however, doesn't have the option of giving that up and living in a mansion because they think it's a better way to live.

I grew up in the 70s and 80s and it wasn't all sunshine and making dens with the pack after school. It was what it was and now time has moved on and it's 2018 so of course, things aren't the same. That's what happens with the passage of time. Duh.

The problem is that when the council estate houses were sold off, it created a wider gulf between haves and have-nots IMO. A council house was nothing to be ashamed of, until the home ownership greed made it seem that way. I grew up in private rented area in a town centre and there were hardly any other kids around, my cousins grew up on a council estate and had loads of friends. Yes, there were arguments and trouble, but usually things were sorted out on a local level. There was enough of a community sense that you didn't shit on your own doorstep and you looked after your house/flat for fear of being thrown out.

I feel very lucky in that although we live in a "naice" area where houses are all owned/mortgaged, we and the neighbours all let our kids out to play and there are usually half a dozen of them circling round the end of the close on bikes/scooters etc in the summer or kicking a ball on the little patch of grass. The older ones wander off to the local Coop for sweets. Recreating times past.

I think the romantic views of deprivation and poverty are dangerous actually. Yes!

There is nothing nice about growing up poor.

Answering the register with 'free dinners'.
Comparing your 4 nights in Haven every 4 years with Universal studios or Spain.
No after-school clubs.
Not being able to go out with friends because the only shoes you own are your school shoes.
Not going to birthday parties because your mum can't afford a present.
Colouring your skin with a biro where you have holes in your tights that can't be replaced.
Using washing up liquid to wash your hair.
Using newspaper as toilet roll when it ran out.
No san pro
Waking up to slug trails on your pillow.
Telling your teacher that your mum can't afford food tech ingredients.

Growing up feeling that nice things are not meant for the likes of you and that feeling staying with you into your adult life. Learning to settle and convincing yourself that you don't want what others have got.

I grew up poor in the 80's in council housing. My parents both worked low paid jobs. I had a happy childhood and I was loved but there is no doubt that our lives would have been so much better if we had more money.

I still live in a council house. DH now earns a good wage but I still can't get my head around people like us being able to do something like buying a house. That's for posh people! We used an accountant for the first time this year for DH's tax return and I felt like an imposter.

It's lovely that you have such happy memories but it's not the poverty you are missing!

Money doesn't bring happiness does it?

Nope, but it gives you some security. You know where your next meal is coming from. You can pay for the roof over your head...
So how you spend it is entirely up to you... same as happiness, it's entirely up to you!

Where I grew up everyone was very poor, so it wasn't until I was a teenager that I really understood we were poor.

So everyone only had 1 pair of shoes - that was normal.
There were no afterschool clubs except uniformed ones like cubs and brownies.
Birthday parties were very small affairs. I think from memory we didn't give presents. Mums basically made a little cake, few sandwiches and jelly.

for some kids I see, the difference between being poor and "rich"can be as simple as getting a ride in the car on a rainy day (or any day), or having to trek in the rain or take buses to go to school. Not the end of the world, but they do see the difference.

Your childhood sounds like mine :)

Sure we were poor, but we always had enough for food and clothes and the occasional cheap day out. Everyone else on the estate was similar.

This was during the Blair boom years though, I imagine it’s much harder trying to survive on benefits/ordinary WC jobs nowadays.

Haven't rtft but think you may be looking back through rose coloured glasses. You were a child and the reality for your parents was probably different: no money for food=stress, arguments etc. Am gobsmacked that anyone had "spare fish fingers" to put on for extra kids. We certainly didn't. Money can most certainly not buy you happiness. All it can do is take away the sort of stresses that occur when you cannot afford essential things like food, shoes, electricity etc. And life is a lot, lot better without those worries.

You describe your council estate as idyllic. Ours was full of criminals and very scary! We had stuff stolen from house, from car, anything not nailed down basically.

Awwww but you know its just nostalgia. Money doesnt bring happiness but neither does poverty. Im sure there are plenty of people on council estates having a terrible time.

But no YANBU because obviously things got bad for you when you left a council estate so its going to be hard to be reminded of that.

I remember DS1 and his little mate would call in at our house and his, decide who was making the best dinner and both eat there

Haha, that is so funny.

OP you could almost be describing my childhood, it was wonderful. I'm lucky enough to live on a housing estate with minimal traffic and all the kids are outside playing all the time or if the weather's bad they go to each others houses, although I do find it hard to get to know the parents, everyone keeps to themselves mostly.

Problem is now you couldn't just ask Jane or Johnny to stay for tea for fear of them having food allergies or intolerances. Give them something that doesn't agree with them you could be sued.

Do people really believe this kind of thing??

'there is nothing nice about growing up poor'

well there is isnt there? Some people are having a terrible time its true but equally some people who are wealthy are having a shit time. If your parents abuse you or dont love you it doesnt matter how much money you have or dont have.

And actually when you read about these very rich people who chuck their kids in gender segregated boarding schools from the age of 7 you can kind of think it might actually be a better childhood if you were a bit poorer. I mean not starving but if you had just enough to get by.

My husband grew up on a council estate and whilst it had its problems for him he has ended up with a large and warm family many of whom still live on the same street as each other.... as opposed to me whos wealthier family are scattered across many countries and barely speak to each other.

I've not read the whole thread (sorry!) But what decade are you talking about, because it might have something to do with that rather than where you lived?

My happiness has always been what's left of me after responsibilities and needs are met.

Childhood - zero responsibilities usually, needs mostly met, and there was endless time to be happy. University was pretty sweet too, and at that sweet spot between promotion to big work duty, and an improved disposable income.

Last few years have been a balance, but I've just been promoted again, and have enough income to farm out responsibilities, and be more content.

In short, I think it's bugger all to do with community!

As someone who grew up in a deprived area in a poor household, and has been in poverty as an adult, I'm skeptical of people who say "money doesn't buy happiness". I am infinitely happier not worrying about unexpected knocks at the door, or having to crawl around to hide from debt collectors, as we did growing up, and being able to see my own breath in my bedroom over winter. We're not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but have enough to keep ourselves out of bad debt, fed and with the heating on.

It's looking back on childhood with rose tinted glasses.

You speak my mind op