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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to find this so sad (dinosaur attitude to gay marriage)

100 replies

Schwanengesang · 28/01/2018 07:34

Can't really discuss this in real life, noone wants to continue to hear me whinge about my parents' attitudes to everything.

Was on the phone to parents today and they said they've got a wedding invitation to the wedding of two of my dad's old colleagues (both women).

Mother said "isn't it ridiculous, at their age. Disgusting, rubbing everyone's noses in it like we should all think they're clever or something. People like that never stop going on about themselves."

I enquired what was so unusually self-regarding about two people getting married (people who have been together since about 1983, and who have only just in the last few weeks acquired the legal right to get married in their country).

My dad said "Well everyone's always known about them, why they think they have to have a bloody wedding just to show off now, heaven only knows."

I said "well, good for them, isn't it great that they can finally get married after all these years. Please do pass on my congratulations and best wishes" and firmly changed the subject.

It is just so, so sad that there are still people who think like my parents do. I guess it is very unusual that once people make a positive personality trait of being "discerning" insular, critical, bigoted they should ever acquire the self-insight to realise that their views are repellent.

OP posts:

TathitiPete · 28/01/2018 14:42

No, I can't get my head around 'marriage has to between a man and a woman because it says so in the Bible'. I probably sound very close minded there, but I'm wide open to trying to understand the view. I doubt I would agree but I'd love to understand. Maybe if it was restricted to 'You're only married in the eyes of God if you're married under certain conditions eg, man and woman, in a church, whatever the criteria' I can understand that alright. It would mean that two people who got married in a hotel, register office, beach etc are just as much 'not married in the eyes of God' as two married men or two married women. I don't know if that's the case though?

HeckyPeck · 28/01/2018 15:00

My BiL quite succinctly said (and I hope not offensively to people on this thread) that gay marriage is like his black boyfriend fighting to be in the KKK. That's the black boyfriend he's had for 15 years and neither can "be bothered" with marriage"

That's not an accurate comparison though. All KKK members are racist, but the vast majority of married people aren't homophobic!

Also marriage predates Christianity by thousands of years so using the bible's definition doesn't hold any weight.

tenaciousC · 28/01/2018 15:18

HeckyPeck

I think you made a mistake - although maybe it was an intentional writing.

It isn't about married people being homophobic but religious people being homophobic. I have no idea which is better, hypocritical religious people of homophobic religious people.

Also marriage predates Christianity by thousands of years so using the bible's definition doesn't hold any weight.

It does hold weight. It's always been about heterosexuality either explicitly or through example.

crunchymint · 28/01/2018 15:21

Yes there are lesbian and gay people who politically object to marriage, just as there are straight people who do.
But lesbian and gay people should still have the right if they wish to marry their partner.

callmeadoctor · 28/01/2018 15:31

I think that we should zip it and stop being offended all the time, there are much more important things to worry about than what other people think about gay marriage, who cares anyway? There are people dying of cancer all around us!!!

Dozer · 28/01/2018 15:34

illustrious · 28/01/2018 15:46

Marriage equality is just that, equality. So we gays get to marry if we want and don't get married if we don't want to. But we are still far off actual marriage equality in the UK anyway because of the DUP in Northern Ireland opposing everything to do with it, because of God obvs.
I have been told by people that my marriage - isn't 'right', or isn't even a 'marriage'. I was told that about our Civil Partnership too actually.
And i have been told that our having children isn't 'right' too. Apparently the almost 3 million children from heterosexual relationships who are being brought up in single parent households, headed usually by the mother, and who don't live with or have contact with their fathers is the fault of the handful of LGBT families in the UK.
Usually, I just ignore when other people comment on my relationship or family and crack on with 'flaunting' it.

Batteredoldchesterfield · 28/01/2018 16:01

I'm married. I'm female and my husband is male. Neither of us have ever wanted children. We had a humanist marriage ceremony as neither of us are christian or any other religion.

So, is my marriage 'not a marriage'?

No 'eyes of God' important to us and neither is the children aspect.

Strip away all that and what sets me and my husband apart from a gay couple?

Nowt I say.

AssassinatedBeauty · 28/01/2018 16:09

The religious objection to same-sex marriage only makes sense in the context of religiously compliant marriages, not marriages in general. In the UK opposite-sex couples have been able to get married in a non-religious setting for many years. Religion has nothing to do with those marriages. Of religious people object to same-sex marriages then do they also to civil weddings?

balsamicbarbara · 28/01/2018 16:15

To be honest your parents' opinions on gay marriage not being the real deal remind me of all the MNers saying trans women aren't "actual" women in another thread around here. It will take time for these attitudes to die out.

HeckyPeck · 28/01/2018 16:50

It isn't about married people being homophobic but religious people being homophobic. I have no idea which is better, hypocritical religious people of homophobic religious people.

Ah yes I think I see now. Your BIL meant about religious marriage, not marriage?

HeckyPeck · 28/01/2018 16:52

That wasn't meant to sound facetious by the way - I couldn't think of a word for non religious marriage (although typing that I see non religious marriage would have done!)

FoodGloriousFud · 28/01/2018 17:09

Not relevant but I read this as Gay wedding (dinosaur attire)

HeckyPeck · 28/01/2018 17:10

Not relevant but I read this as Gay wedding (dinosaur attire)

I want to go to that wedding

Mountainpika · 28/01/2018 17:21

Ancient 70 year old here.

If two people want to make a formal commitment to each other, then they should be able to do so, whatever m/f m/m f/f pair they are. I have gay friends and if any of them were to be married, I'd be first in the queue to be bridesmaid.

Love is love.

scaryteacher · 28/01/2018 17:27

We won't have equality in marriage until everyone can have a civil partnership if they want.

Balsamicbarbara As on the other thread, I disagree with you. Trans women are not real women, especially if they still have their male genitalia.

Reddlion · 28/01/2018 17:33

hardly showing off if they were having sex in front of everyone then yeah but anyway your parents don't have to go who would want someone against their love there anyway

LizzieSiddal · 28/01/2018 18:28

It's abhorrent to me when the older generations have such racist/homophobic views

This is just not true and your sweeping statement is very ageist!

My mum is 72, is the most tolerant person you could meet, voted to stay in the EU, raises money for asslum seekers etc.she was recently “best woman” at her gay friends wedding! This is in a sleepy market town.

My MIL at 75 is on the other hand a racist, UKiper and is homophobic. I limit the time I spend with her.

But please do not tar all older people with the same brush!

Eltonjohnssyrup · 28/01/2018 18:35

I suspect they would probably have the same attitude towards two straight people getting married after a long relationship too.

I suspect if it was two people in their late 20s getting married your mother would be saying something like 'Why don't people elope or have small weddings? Why do they have to show off and spend all that money'.

Your mother sounds bitter in general and like she just dislikes other people and other people being happy rather than being someone with a specific ideological objection to gay marriage. It's just that in this case being gay is the obvious handle for her vitriol.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 28/01/2018 18:48

Please don't come back with the argument about marriage and children. I'm not sure I know anyone now who doesn't marry someone, purely because they love them and want to show their commitment through marriage. Some people already have children, some don't want, or can't have children. It's not a valid argument imo.

Well then you don't know any Catholics or non-Catholics who married a Catholic in a Catholic ceremony. Promising something like 'openness towards children the marriage may bring' is required for Catholic marriage ceremonies.

If you can't have children or are too old that is okay. But if you say you don't want children or don't want any more they will not marry you. If you know that sex has the potential for you to reproduce but prevent it by contraception you are going against Catholic teaching that marriage is a sacred union which is the only context for legitimate sex which has to have the theoretical potential to create a new life.

If you are saying you intend to do it by not not having sex then they will not marry you as they do not regard unions where no sex has taken place as legitimate (non-consummation).

Gay marriage would have the same standing as a non-consummated heterosexual marriage in the eyes of the Catholic Church. Invalid as the act with a theoretical possibility of procreation hasn't taken place.

Incidentally in marriages of people considered too old to have children it's still considered a theoretical possibility largely because of the bible story of Elizabeth conceiving in old age.

Just because you don't know people who have these views (or would be prepared to tell you) doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means you know a very narrow circle of people and tend to associate with those who mirror your own views back.

Eltonjohnssyrup · 28/01/2018 18:57

A lot of Catholics were very supportive of Civil Partnerships rather than marriage is an example of that. They recognised the right for legal recognition of gay relationships, but wanted to stop short of calling it 'marriage' because that started using religious terminology.

Original poster

Schwanengesang · 28/01/2018 19:10

Thanks everyone. For the avoidance of straw man arguments:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/comparison-of-civil-partnership-and-marriage-for-same-sex-couples

Also, those saying marriage is all about (Christian) religious views, do keep in mind the Christians didn't give a monkey's about marriage until about the 1200s when they realised they needed to take control a bit more...

OP posts:

Eltonjohnssyrup · 28/01/2018 19:16

1200s was when it became a formal sacrament. It was recorded as an element of Christianity back to 500AD.

Prior to that, well Christianity is based on Judaism. And Judaism included marriage as the basis for procreation right back into the BCEs.

illustrious · 28/01/2018 19:39

Civil Partnerships were a necessary step towards at the time for marriage equality for LGBT people and they were there simply to appease the churches. They only exist in the U.K. now because of the lack of marriage equality in the U.K. because of Northern Ireland. They aren’t the same as marriage, they don’t hold the significance as marriage, they don’t have the same cultural influence as marriage. Straight people shouldn’t be hankering after a poor mans version of marriage .. that’s not equality.

Tequilaitmakesmestupid · 28/01/2018 19:55

Oh and thank you, Shwan

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