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Original poster

to find this so sad (dinosaur attitude to gay marriage)

100 replies

Schwanengesang · 28/01/2018 07:34

Can't really discuss this in real life, noone wants to continue to hear me whinge about my parents' attitudes to everything.

Was on the phone to parents today and they said they've got a wedding invitation to the wedding of two of my dad's old colleagues (both women).

Mother said "isn't it ridiculous, at their age. Disgusting, rubbing everyone's noses in it like we should all think they're clever or something. People like that never stop going on about themselves."

I enquired what was so unusually self-regarding about two people getting married (people who have been together since about 1983, and who have only just in the last few weeks acquired the legal right to get married in their country).

My dad said "Well everyone's always known about them, why they think they have to have a bloody wedding just to show off now, heaven only knows."

I said "well, good for them, isn't it great that they can finally get married after all these years. Please do pass on my congratulations and best wishes" and firmly changed the subject.

It is just so, so sad that there are still people who think like my parents do. I guess it is very unusual that once people make a positive personality trait of being "discerning" insular, critical, bigoted they should ever acquire the self-insight to realise that their views are repellent.

OP posts:
Trills · 28/01/2018 12:11

I was looking up the differences between a marriage and a civil partnership and did you know that the following is grounds for annulment of both a marriage or a civil partnership?

If the respondent was pregnant at the time of the marriage by some person other than the petitioner

Tequilaitmakesmestupid · 28/01/2018 12:17

"being anti gay marriage isn't homophobic"

Absolute rubbish. Of course it is. Not believing that same sex love should be recognised in the same way as mixed sex, is of course homophobic. Please don't come back with the argument about marriage and children. I'm not sure I know anyone now who doesn't marry someone, purely because they love them and want to show their commitment through marriage. Some people already have children, some don't want, or can't have children. It's not a valid argument imo.

Having civil partnership is not enough for some, myself included, so please don't say that we should basically be grateful for that. I believe in complete equality. It works both ways. Straight people should be able to have civil partnerships and gay people should be able to be married. If you don't believe in equal marriage, you are homophobic. End of.

Viviennemary · 28/01/2018 12:17

I do not agree with gay marriage either. Marriage is between a man and a woman end off. I am in favour of civil partnerships.

Feelitstill · 28/01/2018 12:19

pointythings
Would you say what you’ve just said to a room full of Muslims? because calling people names just because their faith doesn’t please you is rather discriminating in itself.
A true liberal society respects people’s religious values and doesn’t try to ban them.

tenaciousC · 28/01/2018 12:19

I thing that the bible is perfectly clear in it's dislike of homosexuality and its meaning of marriage. I also wonder why gay people are so keen to join a "club" which clearly doesn't want them.

Whilst I'm completely for equality, I do have mixed feelings about gay people getting married in a church.

I like the way it's done in the Netherlands - your marriage is not valid unless it has been performed in a registry office. You can have all the religious ceremonies you want, but they do not make you married. And the rules are the same for everyone, gay or straight.

Sounds perfect!

pointythings · 28/01/2018 12:29

Feelit Yes, I absolutely would. And of course people are entitled to hold their views, whatever they are. And I am entitled to find those views abhorrent, and to express that abhorrence openly. That's the joy of living in a free and democratic society.

And 'Faith' doesn't have an inherent value that entitles it to respect. I am an atheist. I believe that everyone is entitled to believe what they want, including not believing in a deity. All those beliefs hold equal value because they are just that - beliefs. Where those beliefs do not impact on my everyday life, I am fine with them. When people want to impose those beliefs on me - for instance by forbidding marriage equality or banning abortion - then I am not fine with them and I will speak out. People can choose to listen to me, argue with me or ignore me. Ah, freedom.

Ultimately there is one religious tenet I am completely on board with, and it's pagan: First, do no harm. Marriage equality does not harm anyone.

Dozer · 28/01/2018 12:31

Marriage is a legal contract.

Religious ceremonies don’t have legal status without additionally signing the marriage contract (register) or approved alternatives (eg if overseas).

Tequilaitmakesmestupid · 28/01/2018 12:34

Vivianne, some things are true whether you believe in them or not, I'm afraid Wink And "end of" ? Really? Not according to our laws... America's Supreme Court, France, Australia.....

So it's not "end of" you see. As much as it must horrify your narrow mind.

Dozer · 28/01/2018 12:35

The Bible and other religious texts aren’t great on equality generally!

“also wonder why gay people are so keen to join a "club" which clearly doesn't want them”

Legal marriage is not a “club”. It confers significant legal and financial benefits. The government and Parliament determines the entry/exit terms.

Understandable that someone gay who believes in and practices a religion may wish to have a religious marriage ceremony in addition to the legal one.

Quickerthanavicar · 28/01/2018 12:36

Being anti gay marriage isn't homophobic. Yes it actually is.

paranoidpammywhammy2 · 28/01/2018 12:47

It's not as if you can only get married in a church though.

It's not as if you have to be a christian to get married.

badcopgoodcop · 28/01/2018 12:49

I also don't like the excuse 'oh they were brought up in a different era'. Bollocks. Then how come others their age are able to go through life without being racist, homophobic and bigoted?

This. And I also hate the whole "everyone is entitled to their opinion" spiel, normally said by someone who has never been affected by these bigots so "I'm alright, Jack". Would you say the same if someone went up and your own DC and called them a disgusting c**t for no reason? I bet you any money you'd be shocked, hurt and on MN asking how people can be so evil not saying "well, it's their opinion".

Feelitstill · 28/01/2018 12:57

Thanks for replying Pointy And I agree with you on paganism.
I try and respect all views & beliefs as best I can as I feel this is the basis for a loving tolerant society. I’m anti abortion, but I would never want abortion banned as I respect a woman’s right to choose. I’m in favour of gay marriage, but I would never call someone who isn’t, an ignorant bigot, maybe it’s because I know quite a few religious people who are the nicest kindest people you could meet, they just happen to believe a marriage is between a man & a woman.
I know it’s very hard to be a true liberal. In fact, it’s impossible when you throw region into the mix.

Tequilaitmakesmestupid · 28/01/2018 13:02

And I also hate the whole "everyone is entitled to their opinion" spiel, normally said by someone who has never been affected by these bigots so "I'm alright, Jack". Would you say the same if someone went up and your own DC and called them a disgusting ct for no reason? I bet you any money you'd be shocked, hurt and on MN asking how people can be so evil not saying "well, it's their opinion".

Yes. This sums it up completely for me. Spot on.

Tequilaitmakesmestupid · 28/01/2018 13:07

Really, feel it ? What if someone said they didn't believe black people should be in this country? Would you still not think or call them an ignorant bigot?

Tequilaitmakesmestupid · 28/01/2018 13:10

"they just happen to believe marriage is between a man and a woman". There you go again, you see. Homophobia wrapped up in a bow. Not calling you a homophobe, obviously, but you're talking about it as though it's nothing and that I and many others, shouldn't be deeply offended.

Viviennemary · 28/01/2018 13:15

I happen to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. . They have redefined the meaning of marriage. And as others have said a lot of gay people don't believe in marriage for gay people either. They can call it what they like civil partnership or whatever. But it's not marriage.

Tequilaitmakesmestupid · 28/01/2018 13:19

Vivianne, except that it is. By law.

tenaciousC · 28/01/2018 13:20

Understandable that someone gay who believes in and practices a religion may wish to have a religious marriage ceremony in addition to the legal one.

They need to have the religion educated out of them, maybe even more than other religious people.

My BiL quite succinctly said (and I hope not offensively to people on this thread) that gay marriage is like his black boyfriend fighting to be in the KKK. That's the black boyfriend he's had for 15 years and neither can "be bothered" with marriage".

I also hate the whole "everyone is entitled to their opinion" spiel

Isn't the alternative 'thought crime'?

Opinions and actions are often very different things. Keeping them apart is a skill I've had to master in my career.

Being anti gay marriage isn't homophobic. Yes it actually is.

No, it's understanding what marriage means.

Trills · 28/01/2018 13:22

"Understanding what marriage means" Hmm

to find this so sad (dinosaur attitude to gay marriage)
Tequilaitmakesmestupid · 28/01/2018 13:22

When I marry my DP, it will be a marriage .

AuntLydia · 28/01/2018 13:23

Marriage isn't an exclusively Christian institution any more. There was absolutely no religious aspect to my marriage. So how can anyone insist it has to be between a man and a woman? On what basis? This debate is academic anyway. Op's folks haven't said they are just against marriage, their views are full of hatred and venom towards homosexuality in general. That is their objection, not that marriage is only between people of the opposite sex.

pointythings · 28/01/2018 13:37

Marriage is a societal construct which since Medieval times has been about lands, wealth and politics. Marriage as a thing that is mainly about love is a recent development. So the definition of marriage has changed. It is now changing again. Life is about change - embrace it or get left behind.

tenaciousC · 28/01/2018 14:18

There was absolutely no religious aspect to my marriage.

So, a civil marriage. I'm trying to understand the semantics / differences.

I guess then I'm for gay civil marriage but not gay religious marriage.

Marriage is a societal construct which since ...

It's a religious construct and religion is about indoctrination and control of the masses survival of your particular way of thinking through breeding within your religion.

isadoradancing123 · 28/01/2018 14:22

Well they are entitled to their opinions and you are entitled to disagree with them, there is no right or wrong. Sad , no!