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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To want this stopped?!

387 replies

Notasperfectasallothermners · 26/01/2018 10:57

Dd started secondary school in September. Loves it, really settled well - no worries regarding peers /work etc. However, had an issue with food tech last week where dd (vegi entire life) was given pre measured out ingredients to make biscuits, as dd didnt know what lard was she used it and brought the biscuits home. All dc sat and ate them, will admit they were nice! Until she mentioned lard and Googled it herself. Not a happy dd! Told her things happen and not to worry, not lovely to drop down in a heap this once sort of thing.
Rang the school to remind them she is vegi etc, mistakes happen - don't expect head on a platter etc...
Then yesterday she gets home, salad wrap for lunch, server wearing gloves to handle ingredients makes hers - after handling ham to the previous dc in the line! Rang school again, they will be speaking to the caterers today. Fed up. Sad

OP posts:
SusieOwl4 · 26/01/2018 17:04

I am not vegetarian but I would cook vegetarian for a guest .

Are you saying your child would not cook a meat dish for a guest ?

Or just that she was upset that she ate lard ?

I must admit I know quite a lot of vegans and vegetarians and I have never heard of the cross contamination problem before . Only with allergies . You learn something every day .

kungfupannda · 26/01/2018 17:04

I've been vegetarian for over thirty years and I can handle meat, cook with meat, sit next to people eating meat with no problems. I don't particularly enjoy preparing meat, but I'm the only vegetarian in the family so I do it every now and again. I've also been accidentally fed small amounts of meat on two occasions.

Most vegetarians that I know are vegetarian for ethical reasons or due to a simple dislike of meat, and in the absence of real health risks attached to contamination (as in the case of allergies) I think it's probably sensible to develop a fairly robust approach to the whole thing.

Mistakes are occasionally made, and there will be all sorts of situations where people might serve food without it occurring to them to avoid using different utensils, and even more situations where you have absolutely no idea how your food has been handled. If you are vegetarian due to animal welfare concerns, then the most important thing is that you are not adding to the overall demand for meat. If it's about personal taste, the most important thing is presumably that you don't actually consume something you don't like.

It's possible to have strong ethical views, and also a pragmatic approach to things. You can choose to get worked up about the idea of something touching meat and then touching your food, or you can try to avoid it but recognise that the occasional error doesn't actually impact on the real core of your values, particularly if actual consumption of meat isn't involved.

As a PP mentioned, vegetarianism is something of a halfway-house between eating meat and eating no animal products at all. If you have such very strong ethical feelings about meat that you are distressed by the idea of utensils touching meat, then it's odd not to go the whole way and become a vegan. I'm vegetarian, not vegan, and I can accept that it's actually a slightly mixed ethical stance to take. As it happens, I turned vegetarian because I don't like meat or fish, although if I had to make the choice again now, there would probably be a much stronger ethical element to the decision, as I know more about the meat industry/environmental issues than I did back then.

Having said all that, I would avoid eating vegetarian food from a meaty barbecue, as it's pretty much impossible for it not to finish up covered in meat fat and therefore, to me, inedible.

RowenasDiadem · 26/01/2018 17:06

I'm not vegetarian but I can definitely see why a vegetarian would be put off by cross contamination with meat. It's pretty basic stuff when it comes to food handling, particularly for vegetarians.
I had a friend who was veggie and her friends always ordered pepperoni pizza for them all and other meat dishes and expected to pick the meat off/out. She always had to go back and order her own.
The lard thing is pretty bad too. I went to a Catholic school with a lot of Muslim pupils. It wasn't hard for classes to have suitable recipes. It should be noted somewhere that your DD is vegetarian and things like lard shouldn't be used. The school need a reminder and DD needs to speak up when it comes to her lunch prep.

babyccinoo · 26/01/2018 17:08

blueshoes

That is not a correct assumption. Vegetarians on this thread said they don't mind cross contamination. Others have expressed concern about the plastic waste.

The OP's dd is giving all vegetarians a bad name. OP will not be doing her dd any favours in indulging such entitled and precious behaviour. Packed lunches are the solution.

Eh? Not all vegetarians on this thread have said they don't mind cross contamination! And even if they did, it doesn't matter, food hygiene rules trump MNers!!

lougle · 26/01/2018 17:10

"vegi entire life"

Is your DD vegetarian by choice, or by parentage? Has she actually considered her own views? It's impossible to be a vegetarian for your whole life, isn't it?

I'm a Christian. I have been since I was 16. I have 3 children. I wouldn't say they've been Christians their whole lives. DD3 (8), for example, has been a Christian since she was 4. She very clearly decided one day, that she wanted to love Jesus and know Him, and follow Him. That was the day that she became a Christian for herself. As she grows up, she will make many more decisions whether to continue in her faith, or to try a different way.

So is your DD a vegetarian in the sense that she came to a point in her life where she made a decision to forgo animal products, or did she just eat vegetarian foods because she was never exposed to a omnivorous lifestyle?

taskmaster · 26/01/2018 17:13

food hygiene rules trump MNers!

again there is nothing at all in food hygeine rules that mean you can't handle ham and then salad. Not a thing.

Agerbilatemycardigan · 26/01/2018 17:16

I'm still trying to get over the fact that lard's still a thing

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/01/2018 17:17

It's impossible to be a vegetarian for your whole life, isn't it

Its perfectly possible to be a vegetarian for your whole life

Christmascardqueen · 26/01/2018 17:20

Hard to tell the difference between lard and vegetable shortening. Cooks teachers often interchange the word. In my cooking class she’d be making it as directed and her choice not to eat.
The ham and lettuce are probably stored in the same fridge as well.

PumpkinPiloter · 26/01/2018 17:38

I am not a vegetarian but there is no excuse for using lard in biscuits when you can use margarine in a school setting and cross contamination is very bad practice food safety wise when you can easily have two sets of tongs. It would make me worry about whatever food safety corners they were cutting.

Why should OP's daughter have to forego the ability to purchase food from school just because she would like extremely normal food safety standard practices to be followed. If prisoners have their dietary preferences catered for why not school students?

taskmaster · 26/01/2018 17:39

There is great excuse: its delicious. But I doubt OP is correct about the lard anyway.

lougle · 26/01/2018 17:51

"Its perfectly possible to be a vegetarian for your whole life"

No, it isn't. It's perfectly possible to have practiced the practical aspects of the vegetarian lifestyle for your whole life, but it is impossible to have held the beliefs and principles of vegetarianism for your whole life. For a start, when you were born, you didn't know what an animal was, you had no idea what farming was, you had no idea what intensive farming was, selection, etc. You cannot possible have chosen not to eat meat.

If you have been raised as vegetarian from the moment you were born, you simply haven't been exposed to an omnivorous lifestyle, and then at some point, perhaps, decided to embrace vegetarianism for yourself, or alternatively, passively continued what you always knew. Just the same as children who are brought up with religion (I say, as an active Christian - my children have, young as they are, at 12, 10 and 8, been told that having a Christian Mum and Dad doesn't make them Christians, and they get to choose for themselves what they believe. Right now, they go to church because they are young and we go. But they have to make that choice for themselves, because it's a decision). I hope that vegetarian/vegan/ passionate people who believe other things are saying the same to their children?

"Here's what I do, here's what I believe, here's why, but it's your decision."

londonista · 26/01/2018 17:55

Agerbilatemycardigan.... yep, you're not alone.

Still I have eaten fewer biscuits today, so, ya know, every cloud!

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/01/2018 17:57

Yes it is possible

Someone who doesnt eat meat is a vegetarian

Someone who doesnt drink alcohol is teetotal

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one

Wine ?

strawberrypenguin · 26/01/2018 18:00

But she wasn’t actually given ham to eat was she? I don’t think it’s worth getting that her up about. It’s not an allergy where a trace on the gloves could have disastrous consequences it’s a lifestyle choice.

And if she didn’t know what lard was she should have asked.

lougle · 26/01/2018 18:02

Sorry, I'm teetotal (genuinely!)

I think that true vegetarians would say the defn of vegetarian goes wider than not eating meat, wouldn't they? Also, I'm saying I'm teetotal, but really, all that means is that I don't drink alcohol because a) I don't like the taste, and b) I take medications that would be not great with alcohol. So am I 'teetotal' or do I just have 0 units per week? Because if I really wanted to have a drink I could. I have no moral, legal or medical reason why I can't have a drink if I want one. But I don't.

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/01/2018 18:02

A vegetarian diet is omnivorous, in that it includes animal products in the form of milk and eggs.

@lougle, did you baptise/christen your children?

Good to see that as usual with threads about vegetarianism we seem to have covered all the usual points about vegetarian being hypocrites, forcing their choices on their children, being fussy etc etc. Tolerance abounds from the meat eaters.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/01/2018 18:05

lougle

Its a non alcoholic cocktail

I put it in a nice glass for you Smile

cdtaylornats · 26/01/2018 18:07

food hygiene rules

Can anyone point me at a government food hygiene instruction that suggests a hygiene problem handling meat that is cooked and ready to eat along with washed and ready to eat salad?

I don't think there is a problem.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 26/01/2018 18:12

I am sure some vegetarians would say that the definition goes further

And some would say it doesn't

FurCoatFurKnickers · 26/01/2018 18:13

Are you sure it was animal lard OP? Is it possible it was Trex which is a vegetable fat that is used in place of lard.

@HolyShet I think the phrase cross contamination is being used in the context of trace elements possibly 'contaminating' another foodstuff. For example, the warnings about foods being made in a factory that uses egg, dairy etc. (though those warnings are aimed at people with allergies).

Beansonapost · 26/01/2018 18:15

Make your own food ... problem solved/stopped.

Its a school canteen...if was allergic then fine. but she's not... if she wants to avoid cross-contamination then she should take her own food

My sister has been vegetarian her whole life... she took lunch to school every day.

Imagine if they had to cater to every single lifestyle choice... the poor woman would be changing gloves after handling every meal request.

And the biscuits...eww to lard. but you all ate them and survived.. like people before you.

Ellisandra · 26/01/2018 18:18

I want to post, but my handles are shaking, as I convulse over "psychologically allergic" Grin

I have read the whole thread, and I can't see anywhere (including OP) where the daughter made it known that she was a vegetarian.

She just asked for a bloody salad wrap.
So the server made it.

How is the server to know she's vegetarian? Confused

Just perhaps, if she'd said "hi, I'm a vegetarian..." the server would have chipped in before she continued with a request for new gloves to say "righty-o, I'll just put some new gloves on".

As for the lard...
It's simply her responsibility to know what is an animal product and what isn't.
No excuse to say she didn't know what it was. "Excuse me miss, I'm a vegetarian and I haven't cooked with lard, and I don't know if it's OK, can you help me please?"

Snowflake indeed, not the daughter for being a vegetarian, but the OP for expecting everyone else to manage her child's choices for them Hmm

5plusMeAndHim · 26/01/2018 18:21

Surely all that’s needed is tongs. They don’t even need to be plastic.

How do you make a wrap with tongs?

HolyShet · 26/01/2018 18:23

Sorry @Furcoat don't get your point?

My first line was a quote from a pp who used the term, incorrectly, suggesting that there was a food safety reason why gloves should change. Which there isn't. The bold didn't work.

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