To want this stopped?!

[Notasperfectasallothermners]

Dd started secondary school in September. Loves it, really settled well - no worries regarding peers /work etc. However, had an issue with food tech last week where dd (vegi entire life) was given pre measured out ingredients to make biscuits, as dd didnt know what lard was she used it and brought the biscuits home. All dc sat and ate them, will admit they were nice! Until she mentioned lard and Googled it herself. Not a happy dd! Told her things happen and not to worry, not lovely to drop down in a heap this once sort of thing.
Rang the school to remind them she is vegi etc, mistakes happen - don't expect head on a platter etc...
Then yesterday she gets home, salad wrap for lunch, server wearing gloves to handle ingredients makes hers - after handling ham to the previous dc in the line! Rang school again, they will be speaking to the caterers today. Fed up.

The lard was just wrong. On so many levels. For a food tech person not to understand the vegetarian angle is actually pretty unprofessional.

Not so sure about the sandwiches. It isn't life threatening, and pretty miniscule in terms of x contamination. As Leghoul said, obvious x contamination would be out of order. On so many levels.

Rock I wouod expect to have my own packed lunch like the couple of friends I have whose children have life threatening allergies (nuts/peanuts).

Because
1- i wouldnt delegate the huge responsibility of ensuring the wrong food has t sneaked in my dcs food to someone else
2- because I wouldnt expect them to be able to achieve that level to separation between the foods.

That mean one of my friends very rarely eats in a restaurant in France for example (ground oil being used on a regular basis there) despite being French. Or taking food with her for her dd if they aren’t sure if the people they are going to see are properly aware of her allergies.
School lunches have always been packed lunch and she brings a towel to go in the table to be sure she won’t be eating any tiny amount of peanuts that could potentially be on the table. Or eats with the food in her knees.
Another friend is avoiding all the schools trips because of that (so no trips skying or whatever).
Fwiw friends who have children who are Muslims or Buddhists are taking a similar stance.

Actually a vegetarian is psychologically allergic to meat Some might be but not all. I know someone who is a vegetarian because she doesn't agree with killing animals, she salivates if someone cooks bacon. She likes meat, she chooses not to eat it.

Some vegetarians don’t care about meat touching their food.

Some care but have the attitude that if they don’t know it won’t hurt them.

Some don’t want meat to touch what they are going to eat.

I don’t think any of those are right or wrong. It’s personal preference and none make a person better or worse vegetarian than another. It’s not a competition for whose the best at not eating meat!

I’m not even sure it matters why they’d fall in to the group they do.

In this case it DOES bother the OP and her DD and that isn’t unreasonable.

There are, however, reasonable solutions to the problem.

I don't understand vegetarians. If you can eat eggs and dairy, why not meat?

A (self-defined) moral code such as being vegetarian is not equivalent to belonging to a religious faith.

Religious belief is a protected characteristic under law. Vegetarianism is not.

Observance of practices required by one's religion is not, for many people, a "choice" and it's unintelligent to suggest it is. Even if you think it should be.

The school in question clearly doesn't bother itself with Halal or Kosher provision, probably knows it doesn't have to. Tongs is the answer but 99% of vegetarians and vegans I know are really pragmatic about this stuff.

The lard thing is bizarre and yes I'd be annoyed, though I really would wonder why my kid didn't realise at the time.

Vegetarianism is not the same as a religion or life threatening allergy. This sounds really odd and I;d be worried about giving extreme food related issues to my DC if overreacting like this

So could any religious person with dietary rules!

I'm a vegetarian myself btw

I used to work with a vegetarian who objected to using saucepans, cutlery or plates that had been in contact with meat. As he did a live in job it was a bit of a nightmare.

Just to lighten the mood. This is from a restaurant called S.wine in a country whose official religion is a Islam. Put the world news on and get a grip about the 'psychological trauma' of such a first world problem.

Not read full thread. DD is vegetarian going vegan for ethical reasons & takes care where she can eg used to love Haribos but now won’t because of gelatine. She was very upset recently when at food outlet at Motorway services she was handed the wrong wrap & bit into chicken.
She did not eat the wrap. I get the upset to some extent but think the just touching cooked ham is a different matter. The dinner lady would probably have just assumed your DD wanted a salad wrap & would not have considered anything else when she is busy serving a lot of pupils.

Hopefully they are more rigorous when it comes to allergies. Yes the immediate upset could be reduced with tongs but what else goes on behind the scenes with food prep? For those with allergies or those with religious/ethical beliefs re food then really the most reliable thing is home-prepared food.

I know we all have different levels of acceptable but I think one risks diluting the message about animal welfare by not being a little more pragmatic. Sorry OP because I don’t wish to cause offence and it is to be admired that your daughter is passionate about animal wefare.

This sounds like huge pointmaking to me.

Surely you're vegetarian because you don't want any extra animals slaughtered and for what you believe to be health reasons.? Unless it's for religious reasons, I can't see how this conflicts with your resolve not eat meat. The ham would be there whether or not it was handled before touching your daughters food and the few molecules of meat left on the gloves wouldn't taint your daughters food enough to make her into a fat, unhealthy meat eater, would it?

The poster that won't eat vegi food cooked on a meat barbeque (assuming animal fats weren't involved) seems to be one of 'those' vegetarians that give the rest a bad name, ie, being fussy for the sake of it.

I'm happy to hear where I've misunderstood but at the moment it sounds like you're being a primadonna 'look at me' vegetarian.

@GumsnNoses

Yep, can't argue with that. Less meat consumption in general a good thing!

I don't go in for vegetarian bashing - I'm married to one! But I do get a bit WTF about the "decomposing corpse" brigade. When you've gone vegan, let me know.

I'm a veggie and have always asked for gloves to be changed when getting a sandwich at subway and the like. I don't want bits of meat from their gloves on my sandwich.
I don't really get what's so hard to understand about not wanting remnants of something you find repulsive all over your food.
It's basic food hygiene standards that gloves be changed so not to cross contaminate (and that isn't exclusive to allergies )
A lot of hate for vegetarians around.

School is full of staff that don’t fully respect vegetarians. I find lots of restaurants label things vegetarian when they are not. If you want your DD to be fully veggie then unfortunately she cannot rely on the school to prepare food. Packed lunch from now on?

BBQ was me. I’m definitely not a primadonna vegetarian! As I said in a follow up post people have different levels of acceptability with regards food whether they are vegetarian or not.

That limitation is mine. It’s not yours. I don’t think either of us are a better or worse vegetarian because at the end of the day what I, or anyone else, is prepared to put in to their mouth is up to them.

I actually hate any attention being drawn to my vegetarianism and constantly decline to talk about it. I don’t need to justify why I don’t eat meat and I don’t question my husband or my father or my daughter about why they do.

Not eating meat is not a complicated dietary decision, just like any other, until someone else starts trying to tell you that you’re wrong for what you are comfortable eating.

MN doesn't seem to really like vegetarians for some reason.....Probably because they don't like their own poor ethical choices being shown up. Hey ho

Nah, we love most vegetarians. it's just the dickhead ones that say stupid shit like this we have a problem with. There was a vote and everything.

Surely you're vegetarian because you don't want any extra animals slaughtered and for what you believe to be health reasons.?

Or because they don’t want to eat dead animals.

Just a thought.

YANBU about the lard. YABU about the gloves/ham. What on earth does the smell of the ham have to do with anything. Presumably you can smell it if the person sitting next to you is eating it anyway. If I hated the smell of aubergine, would I be justified in demanding the server used gloves uncontaminated by the previous diner's aubergine?

Surely if you are a vegetarian on moral grounds rather than allergic ones, cross-contamination (by gloves touching something, not by lumps of ham on your nut roast) is irrelevant? You are neither eating an animal nor causing one to be killed.

I get your point but all I'd say is pick your fights with school. She's only been there a term. You've said about the cooking class and now they know. It's not ideal, but that's life and worse things are likely to happen in a secondary school as they don't tend to bubble wrap each pupil alas. Take a packed lunch if she's worried.

But why does it matter why a person doesn’t eat anything they choose to not eat?

I don’t eat meat and beyond that I also don’t want to eat a vegetable skewer that’s been splattered with the fat from a burger or had blood from a steak dripped on to it. I’m not being fussy. It was a logical decision for me and I guess it’s a 20 year habit now. For me it’s the same as I don’t eat anything from the local chippy shop because they cook it all in beef dripping.

But I will buy and cook meat for my family and friends because they do eat it.

My choice doesn’t impact or reflect on anyone else’s dietary choices, and I don’t judge anyone else for theirs.

It's basic food hygiene standards that gloves be changed so not to cross contaminate (and that isn't exclusive to allergies hmm)

tbh - that's not quite right, though, is it?
cross contamination is between say raw food and ready to eat food. not tomato and say, egg. gloves are just changed when you are doing something after which you would usually wash your hands. not between making one sandwich and another. there's no hygiene issue.

I'm a vegetarian, I love vegetarians and I love vegans. All of them, even the santimonious ones. And on this issue I am in Team Tongs but in this case OP and DD need to try to take a less squeamish and more pragmatic approach. (not on the lard though, as no-one rtft, the lard's gross)

There is no food hygiene reason to change gloves between ham and salad, at all.

Lard is a brilliant ingredient, but I highly doubt any school makes biscuits with it.

Having beef blood from a steak dripped on to your vegetarian food is different from the brine that makes ham wet.
Tbh vegetarians are morally hypocritical as dairy is provided as part of the meat industry. It's something I struggle with as I really want to be vegan but I don't have the discipline to give up dairy.

Me too mrs beverley. If you think about it for more than 5 seconds veganism is the natural conclusion to the ethical choice of vegetarianism. I've never used milk, have managed to stop eating eggs but can't quite yet give up all dairy cheese and yoghurt.