To find my gentle parenting friends infuriating?

[Littlemissmuff]

NC as this may be outing.

I have 3 friends, all have toddlers between 2 and 3 years old.
Our children play together frequently and their parenting style is driving me mad.
One of them literally never says no to her son, he can hit our childre or destroy something but instead she insists on talking nicely to him even though he is definitely not listening.
Another one has a huge moan several times a day about how tired she is and she fed up of her toddler getting her up all night to breastfeed; however won't do anything about it and won't take any suggestions such as water or night weaning and states that it is cruel and our roles as mothers are to cuddle our children all night if we have to if that's what they demand even at age 3.
I don't care how they parent their child but I do when it's affecting my son, he is forever getting pushed about by these kids now and he is constantly seeing them doing really dangerous behaviour and "risk taking" without any parent intervention which then makes me look awful to him if i tell him no if he tries to copy them climbing on to the TV stand or windowsill.
I don't know what research shows, but my god these children are so much more naughty than any other children I know.
Aibu to end our playdates even though it might end our friendship?

[TheOtherGirl]

I think one of the most beneficial things you can do for your child is to raise them in such a way that most people will like them and enjoy being with them.

In my Mum Friends Group there were initially a couple of women who basically just let their toddler walk all over them. Was it gentle parenting, or just general pathetic-ness? Who cares?

But it was hugely irritating to be exposed to that sort of parenting and that sort of toddler. So eventually we stopped involving those women in our group and it was a blessed relief (and probably for them, too).

[QueenThisTime]

Of course however you parent you will still get some bad behaviour from kids... no one's perfect. But I think it's important to at least make the effort around other people. It's so bloody rude when these parents act like letting their child rule the roost is everyone else's duty too - I hate that!

[octonaught]

Well they obviously don't have gentle children, so their parenting is not working.

[Mxyzptlk]

Haven't read the thread at all.
YANBU to end the playdates.

[saladdays66]

I'd stop seeing them for a while, I think. They sound annoying!

[Thermostatpolice]

Hitting outside of self defence isn't gentle. I would certainly intervene in an age appropriate way 'gentle hands please!' or whatever.

The rest is parenting differences, which I'd personally leave alone.

[QueenThisTime]

In terms of practical advice, I dumped one of these friends (at the extreme end of the scale), saw others less, and saw some without their DC. If their DC hurt mine, I would say something – not nasty, but just straightforward "You hit x, that's not OK, can you leave her alone please" and made sure I looked out for my DC and protected them. On one group holiday, I removed my child from a shared room with a friend's child who was being a nasty bully, with impunity, and put them in with me, because they were scared. The parents were put out, but couldn't do much. I had to protect my kids, and I think that's OK. Don't apologise, just stay calm and take action when necessary.

[Aeroflotgirl]

YANBU at all, children need boundaries and rules, if they go to school, that is what will happen, they just cannot carry on hurting others. I would not see them for a while, and just meet up if they go to preschool. This would drive me up the wall.

[StatelessPrincess]

Yanbu, they sound obnoxious, I wouldn't spend time with them anymore. I used to know a woman who read some parenting book and then didn't want anyone saying no to her child, she told everyone to say error instead, I felt like I was in a dystopian novel when I was with them. Can't imagine what that kids behavior is like now.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

I think, in all honesty, that if your parenting techniques are so far apart, then yes, you should maybe do something to discontinue playdates with them.

However, if you don't want to tell them outright, you could use slightly more sneaky tactics and just tell them off, as you would your own child, whenever they do anything that is outside the boundaries you set in your own home.
If they don't like it, chances are that they will do the job for you and stop coming around in case you damage their little darlings' progress.

[murmuration]

lion and mycat - I'm with you. I read up about a lot of this stuff, and the main research seems to date to the 1970's! This is not new.

A related issue, I've never met a gentle parenting convert who has the capacity to say live and let live. To offer me the same respect as I'm offering them.

See, the thing is, you may have but you don't know it because they didn't bang on about it! (Although perhaps if they call themselves a 'convert' there's no hope... like it's a religion that must be proselytised). If you met me, and even talked parenting with me, you'd never know I tend to 'gentle' ways (although because of people like the OP's friends, I don't like to associate with the label). Listening to myself talk, I realise that I 'speak' authoritiarian about my parenting ("I won't stand for that behaviour", etc.) so people probably don't realise that I discipline in 'gentle' ways. I've also listened, sympathetically, to well over a month of a parent friend doing CIO with her baby (started at 6mo) without ever saying "maybe it's not working for him and you could try something else or just wait a bit" despite thinking it every time she posted on FB about how little sleep she got because he was screaming all night! (She did take him back into her bed eventually, and it went more smoothly when he was a 1-year-old.) Or how badly people's kids behave in response to punishment or whatever. Because I figure they're adults and have their own ideas and experience and how am I to know what they've tried already and has worked terribly, and they know their kids and themselves best. I only give advice if someone specifically asks for it. Unasked for parenting advice is basically never welcome, I would think. Too easy to seem like criticism, even with the best will in the world. As long as some isn't literally abusing their child, live and let live.

[HeebieJeebies456]

So I've said "no we don't hit" And been told by ALL three why I must not say no because they are doing this gentle parenting and even my own child will end up damaged

Seriously, op - grow a backbone!
You're allowing these so-called 'friends' and their kids to bully and dominate you & your dc in your own home

Who are they to tell you what you can and can't say in your own home?
Who are they to question your parenting style in your own home with your own child?

because they don't understand no at this age anyway
The child may not but the adult definitely does!
So tell them "NO! You cannot over-rule me regards my boundaries in my own home and especially with my child"

Re the Moaner, ignore the mesages/texts and don't respond/react to them.
When she starts whingeing in person just change the subject, start doing something else, walk away from her and let her talk to thin air - or tell her straight that she's draining your energy with her constant whingeing about the same thing all day every day......
Gentle-friending obviously doesn't work..........

[Aeroflotgirl]

Their children are going to be in for a big disappointment when they are older, if they are not used to the word no, and people pussyfooting around them.

[Bananarama12]

Sounds like my sister who's child is not allowed in my house anymore because he hits everyone and my animals and I'm not allowed to say no
Very sad to not like your own nephew who's only 2 because he's a little shit

[murmuration]

because they don't understand no at this age anyway

This confuses me. How will someone ever learn to understand no if they don't hear it? (I guess they don't, and that's the problem when they get older...)

[crikeycrumbsblimey]

I’ve never understood why apparently children don’t understand “no” but five mins of a parent boring them on exactly why they shouldn’t do something is age appropriate!

Any parenting which needs a label is generally ridiculous. Do what you think is best - children need the parenting appropriate to them. Some need firmer boundaries than others. Sometimes we get it wrong too, I am too strict sometimes and have to reign it in.

But parents who don’t prevent their child hurting yours can fuck off. I speak as someone who sat in A&E waiting to see if her child would ever wake up, having been told a brain injury, which resulted from another child’s actions was very likely. I kept my distance for a long time until I was sure things had changed enough for it not to reoccur. If things hadn’t changed we wouldn’t be friends.

[scramwich]

I bet the same people who won't say no because they think the child can't understand also do baby sign. Of course they understand no. Its one of the first words they bloody learn and children start learning language pretty much the second they escape the womb. Maybe before.

[LittleLionMansMummy]

murmur I think it's more that if they hear it all the time they're less inclined to really take any notice of it. My 14mo dd understands no, but will cheerfully continue to throw stuff on the floor deliberately to see what my reaction is with a massive grin on her face. So I remove the food and get her out of her high chair instead. She won't still be doing it at 14yo after all - i live in hope that the novelty will wear off very soon.

Yet she listens if I shout "no, stop!" suddenly and urgently because she's doing something dangerous. Saying no is fine, but some parents say it so often the child just switches off and it's not an important word to them.

[IWannaSeeHowItEnds]

I'm with the OP. If someone is letting their child hit your child or behave badly in your home, you absolutely have the right to tell them no.
And the friend made the bf the OP's business by constsntly whinging about it! There are limits to how much sympathy and support you can be expected to provide when someone complains all the time but won't do a bloody thing to fix their problem!

[Lndnmummy]

With parents and children like this I take a pretty firm but kind approach. I absoloutely expect the same behaviour from visiting children to that of my own. To hitting I would say “no hitting, gentle hands” etc on repeat and if no success simply tell parent to intervene. I don’t tolerate my own child to hit so clearly would not tolerate them being hit by others either. Same with climbing etc. “No climbing on sofa, you might hurt yourself” on repeat. Looking back I might have lost a few friends to this approach? Never thought of it really. I am sure I have also lost a few acquaintances the other way. My son is pretty wild and boystorious “free spirited”as they say. I’m sure some of my friends thought I should have reined him in harder as a toddler but I’m not going to parent for show or permanently tell him off because other people think I should.

He is now a very loving, gentle, well mannered little 5 year old. He is awesome although still struggle to focus at times at School and sometimes get into trouble for chit chatting. I always back any consequences that School would give him. He is the kindest soul I have ever known though and is extremely well tuned to others feelings.

So mixed bag for me. Loving boundaries approach?

[awankstainonhumanity]

I ascribe to gentle parenting. I didn't intially and then a friend who is a gentle parent said "it's gentles pareting, not permissive parenting". There's a world of difference between letting your kids do whatever they want, and gentle parenting.

If you don't like how your friends parent, then distance yourself from them. Only you can say how important the friendship is to you.

[Notevilstepmother]

www.gentleparenting.co.uk/kc/toddler-bites-hits-shoves-throws/

According to this you should tell them we don’t hit.

[bummypicklemummy]

So you think she should stop breastfeeding?

She's not allowed to say she's tired?

Ugh, with friends like you.....

[NataliaOsipova]

I speak as someone who sat in A&E waiting to see if her child would ever wake up, having been told a brain injury, which resulted from another child’s actions was very likely.

Oh gosh - that's awful! Hope your DC is okay now. What did the child do - and what on earth was its parent doing?

[bummypicklemummy]

It's sounds like you don't really like them so why are you hanging out with them?!