To think we don’t realise what modern life is doing to families?

[MrsGrindah]

I’ll own up here.. not a mother myself but a stepmother.
But I spend a lot of time travelling on trains for work and see so many parents on the phone to their kids ( in the mornings and before bedtime). Yes it’s great that technology allows this, but I just feel sorry for people missing out on being with their families. Last week there was a man talking to his little boy, apologising that he had gone before the boy had woken up and wouldn’t be back by the time he went to bed. I felt so sorry for everyone
Not blaming the parents and of course we all have to work. My point is as a society we are becoming used to this and almost expect people to be prepared to sacrifice a significant chunk of family life. Just makes me feel sad to see it and I wonder whether we’ll regret it in years to come.

People have always worked, locally, or a long distance or abroad

In the not so distant past, people communicated only by letter
Telephone usage was rare or unavailable
eg think of the very thin air mail letters

With modern individual technology, people can communicate immediately face to face via skype, facebook, and other social media

So I would say that things have improved dramatically for the better

I don't care if I am poor, as long as my kids are fed and we have a nice safe warm home I am happy
I don’t mind being poor either, but in order to feed my kid and have a nice safe warm flat, I have to work full-time. If I wasn’t working we’d be homeless. Luckily, I thoroughly enjoy my job.

Fia, that is exactly what I mean about this promotion of work life balance being far from reality. Many places, often the big law, accountancy firms etc don't even pay lip service to it really and you can't do anything about it. DH's organisation has a policy of granting and promoting home working but he has just been refused. Funny how home working is perfectly acceptable when he is on holiday.

Sorry but this is normal, you can’t survive on a single salary anymore!
In the 80’s/90’s my dad worked and I’d see him for maybe 30 mins at night and weekends (as long as it wasn’t month end/urgent deadlines, then I might not see him all week). In fact I’d say most people since the dawn of time rarely saw their father during the working week.

I HAVE to travel to get a decent salary, and sorry to sound like a shitty parent but I CHOOSE to commute because I want nice things, and career progression and I want to be successful and viewed as more than just mini Hurty’s mum.
FaceTime is amazing because I can see my DD before she goes to bed, I can read her a story and she can tell me about her day. Yes it sucks that I’m not at home the minute she gets home from nursery but the time we do spend together at the weekends is appreciated far more than it would be if we were together 24/7

My dad worked in a foreign country when I was little and I saw him for a few days every month. This is not a new phenomenon. My mother's parents went to Canada FOR A YEAR and left her with grandparents when she was a small child in the 50s. People have always worked long hours/ worked away/ done what they have to to provide for their kids.

All my grandparents (now in their late 80s worked) - the women as a GP and a PA respectively. They juggled their hours/ had nannies etc

My great grandmother left huge long diaries and clearly wished she hadn’t had to give up work as a GP when she got married.

Both parents working isn’t a Bad Thing.

for many women, working enables them to have a choice to escape an abusive relationship, or to support the family comfortably if their husband gets ill or is made redundant.

Nevertwerknaked i would love to go in house but type of law I do doesn't freely allow that

Goes both ways.

If you go back enough, rich kids were in boarding schools, poorer kids were at work, and even if they weren't, their parents were still working. Ask any child of a miner how much of a family life they had in the 1900s.

I was raised by parents who spent just as much time at work, but couldn't be in touch with us whilst they were there. If they had work to do at the weekend, they had to go to their office. If they were abroad, we received a letter taking days to arrive.
If your dad was a doctor or a vet, let's face it, he was never home, it was more than widely accepted that they would deal with emergencies 24/7.

Techonologie allows us to be in touch, now we can exchange photos and messages through the days. Parents can say good night from the office, whilst in the past, they might have made a phone call at best.
We can stay home weekends and go on holidays because we can be in touch with the office and not waste an entire day because of that one important phone call that needs to be made, and you can access all your documents online.

In an ideal world, parents would work 9 to 5, have 10 minutes commute and be home the rest of the day. It wasn't the case when my parents were young, and it still isn't the case today. It's untrue to believe things have changed that much.

I agree OP.

I grew up in 70's/80's, My mum was mostly a SAHM, my dad worked full-time mon-fri but was always there later afternoon/evening. House bought, holiday every year, some abroad, one car.

Yanbu. And I say that as someone who generally goes to work before my children get up and come home after they have gone to bed. My partner stays at home and —somehow— works from home. We made lifestyle sacrifices for the to happen. Also have a lot of debt. I think the same about how we are glued to our devices and wonder about what example we are setting.

Having said all that, the woman having a full-blown Factime conversation with her child for us all to hear on the train was a step too far.

Sorry but there's not always an alternative... alongside the fact there a jobs that need doing and we have to make sacrifices.

DH is a police officer, he works shifts that mean he can't see his kids some days for sometimes up to a week at the time.

He doesn't do this for the jollies, he does this because he wants to make a difference and because he has to do as he's told.

The same as every other parent in every other job; no one wants to leave their children!

Someone who said it was an 'excuse' to say people have to work long hours to keep a roof over their child's head. No it really isn't and the insinuation that it is is really insulting.

It also has nothing to do with modern day society. What about parents who worked in factories and mills in the 1700's, they worked 15 hour days, 6 days a week and saw their kids a lot less than we see ours now? Or before that? When parents had to leave for weeks at a time to work a harvest/leave the country so they could actually find a job?

Why? Was it to put a roof over their kids or food in their mouths or clothes on their backs? No it was an excuse?!

We do what we have to do for our families, working and missing out on things is regrettably one of them. Don't feel sorry for my children. It's not perfect but no one is coming with a lottery win any time soon so it's staying and I will never regret providing for my children.

I totally agree op. When we were little, my dad being late home meant him getting in at 5:30 instead of 5:00. Tea was always on the table because my mum , as many mums like her, only took a part time job so she would be home by 3.

Yes, there are jobs like that now, but I imagine they’re not as common.
Technology-wise, I can’t see how it’s changed time wise that much...instead of being on tablets all night, kids in the 80s/90s did their fair share tv watching.....and that was in the days when tv gave you square eyes

And for those of us with no father to work and support the kids? What do we do?

I actually think things are swinging back due to technology, more companies are using Skype etc to enable working from home, flexible working and family friendly policies.

Your step children don’t see one of their parents everyday as they are divorced, and I presume they keep in contact with the kids through technology.
You could say in the old days people didn’t get divorced and so saw much more of their kids.

Life is what it is, it’s moved on since those old days. There was plenty that was wrong with those days too.
It’s ridiculous to judge people based on a 2 minute snapshot on the train. You have no idea the story of people’s lives.

Most fathers have always worked and seen little of their children. As others say the difference today is most mothers work full time as well to make ends meet. That does suck and I think this is potentially a real issue and possibly why we are seeing increasing mental health issues for children now. But how else do families make ends meet with housing costs so high?

@fia101 realise it might not be an option/ something you would like but quite a few in house colleagues have shifted specialism dramatically in order to make the move.

I would really like the Law Society to put a lot more pressure on firms to commit to flexible working. It’s bonkers that they are still resistant. Highly trusted professionals yet they can’t trust them to organise their own time

Silver, in good old days you as a single mum could of course have had a nice job in Magdalene Laundries..

I was born in the 60s. My father was out to work before I woke up and back from work after I got home.

It's not modern life.

I think the OP meant the long working hours rather than just a 9-5 and I totally agree with her! I got a job closer to home after my dd was born and Work part time so I can see her! Hubby also works part time and we have bought a new house at a quite reasonable price compared to what we could have gone for. What is the point of having a family if you never see them or never have any money to do anything with them?

100 years ago children saw more of their parents because they were working alongside them.

I’m not judging people at all! My step children are grown up so it’s not relevant to us now. Also laughing at “ middle class hand wringing” . I’m as working class as they come! I’m not judging working parents for gods sake I’m saying I fell sorry for the sacrifices they have to make at times.

I’ll own up here.. not a mother myself but a stepmother

Bit rich that OP!
You know what is a lot more stressful for kids than parents working fulltime?
It is 'blended' families, it is divorce, it is step parents and siblings being foisted on children

Expectations have changed. For example parents are expected to do 20 minutes reading with young children every night plus homework etc. So there is more demand on what parenting involves. We're expected to meet far more emotional and developmental needs than previous generations. Feeding, clothing and housing a child is no longer enough.

Meanwhile there is more blurring of the boundaries of work. My dad worked long hours and commutes through my childhood, indeed his demanding job was a significant contributor to his premature death before he could even qualify for early retirement... but at least in the 80s/ early 90s, work stayed at work. No emails and phonecalls creeping into his time at home away from his desk/ car phone.

We're fortunate that my income wasn't essential to a comfortable family life and I ended up stopping work because my DCs were struggling with a lack of time at home between mine and DH's hours and no avaliable family support. 30 years ago, my job would have been deemed family friendly. These days the pressures have grown to the point where it became a choice to do the job well or to be a good parent. With financial pressure not being involved in the equation, the job was less important than my family. If my finances were critical to the quality of family life, that would be a completely different set of goalposts. As it was, I couldn't do my own long hours, cover completely on my own around DH's long hours and meet my childrens' needs. Well, I could if I had to, but the negative consequences are not worthwhile for an open lifestyle choice.

You've seen be a tiny snapshot of one parents life. You've no idea how much he sees is kids or what his family situation is.

Once in a blue moon I'm out the door before DC awake, and I'll FaceTime them on the train or at work.

You won't see that I'm part time, that I spent the previous day hanging out with them crafting or going swimming. You won't see that their dad is also working flexibly to be able to spend extra time with them.

It's not all doom and gloom.