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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's fucking shit if a tenant can get away with this???

231 replies

NamechangerRanger6 · 23/01/2018 14:43

My parents are landlords. My dad has unfortunately passed away so my mum handles it alone now. The last tenant was in the house for 8yrs. 3yrs ago being in and out of hospital and ill health meant that my mum stopped inspecting. There had been no issues at any inspections so it just didn't enter her head. She did however plan to inspect last year. I know this is heavily naive and if I knew this to be the case at the time I'd have advised her differently and offered to step in for inspections myself.

6 months ago the tenant very suddenly gave notice and moved out, mum went to inspect (I drove her) when the tenant had already left (the tenant wrote a letter and posted the key with it, so there was no time to inspect) What we found was absolute filth. Human and animal shit. Piss up the walls. Rotting food, the original furniture provided with the house was smashed to bits. Parts of the doors smashed in. The patterned red carpet was so dirty it looked a dark brown and you could see no pattern. There was a wet pile of bin bags up against the kitchen door, covered in fruit flies and maggots and god knows what else. I suspect this was the cause of the mold behind the door (the only mold on any fixtures we found - plenty of moody food, clothes and bits of carpet tho) Ashtrays turned up everywhere. The sofa had fag burns all over. Toilet ripped off the wall, bathroom sink smashed on the floor. Light fixtures hanging out by wires. There's more but honestly it would take all day to write it all. I can't think of anything that's been left undamaged.

Since then, the holes in the walls have been filled in and doors replaced. Carpets ripped up. A team of cleaners got the worst of the cleaning done. The total bill for this so far is £8000 (the cleaning alone was 2800, Trust me when I say I don't blame them for that price. It was horrific and I couldn't stand in the house for more than 10 seconds without heaving). Furniture cleared out etc etc.

My mum has sent the bill for all work to the now ex tenant, there was an initial response where they offered a £15 a month payment plan. My mum cried to me about it but accepted (fearing that if she pushed they'd pay nothing) after 2 months they stopped paying. She cannot at this time afford to have further works done. The total to have everything replaced even using the cheapest materials and not replacing like for like is about £35,000. She's looking at selling but has been advised that she'll be looking at maybe £45,000 as a sale price in the state it's in (in decent condition the house would be worth approx £150k).

My mum has been in contact with a solicitor but via some digging we've found out that the tenant has left the country - for Australia. Solicitor advises that if this is the case mum has an extremely slim chance of actually recovering any monies owed and chasing it across the globe would cost thousands upon thousands and likely require an international debt collection agency of some kind and the tenant can easily just ignore it.

Aibu to think this is fucking shit? Sad
I know that my mum should've done things differently but it seems very unfair that you can just book a flight and go to skip out on your financial responsibilities

OP posts:
Lizzie48 · 25/01/2018 08:16

Was probably subletting to someone with a mental health or drug problem.

This, 100%. I suspect this is the most likely explanation.

Bitchywaitress · 25/01/2018 08:31

You could make a fundraising page

Top idea. I know whenever I want to give to a charity case I always pick people with at least 1 asset worth anywhere between £45K and £150K.

Kardashianlove · 25/01/2018 08:35

Tips for sorting the work cheaper-

Get the property cleared and cleaned first (not cleaned spotless but so it’s not stinking and awful to work in).

Get someone in to do floorboards, ceilings. You will get a lower price if they are not having to work around/move stuff.

Get rid of the old bathroom suite, get cheap new bathroom delivered (B&Q). Get plumber in to price bathroom - you will be given a much lower price if he sees the bathroom there and all he has to do is plumb it and rest of house is clean (not debris to work round, bathroom to remove, etc) and paying ‘man with van’ to remove will be so much cheaper than paying plumber to do this.

Same with kitchen, all cleared out. Then get quotes.

Once kitchen and bathroom in, get painter to quote for basic white (again will be cheaper if they see empty house) tell them carpets going down so no need for them to cover floor.

Then get carpet put down.

That price is VERY high. If you are getting people in to give quotes when it’s in a state it will be higher. Also if they see other work needs doing before they can do their job they will probably price higher as will be worried you will mess them about with dates, not be ready when you say, etc.

If you wanted to rent rather than sell, letting agents often have contacts that they could use to help you re-furnish it.

Dipitydoda · 25/01/2018 08:36

Unfortunately I’ve heard similar stories, at least the tennant went of their own accord! I know several people renting out a house that have had to go through a lengthy and costly eviction process too. This is why I would never rent out a proper long term. I’m sorry your mum is going through this at what must be a very difficult time anyway. And to think people want to give tenants more rights!

worridmum · 25/01/2018 08:47

Landlord and house insurance in some cases is not worth the paper its written on as most have so many exclusions its stupid espically landlord insurnce excludes all the highest risk things (basically anything done by the tenet).

lorenlukemum · 25/01/2018 09:02

Yanbu, your poor mum. I decorated my late father's house top to bottom on my own ready for renting, you'd be surprised at what you can achieve. I paid builders to decorate part of the house I live in and they did such a crap job I'd have been better off doing it myself. Honestly, if it's just a rental paint it white or magnolia and give the floors and ceilings a go. I would recommend investing in a good plasterer for a better finish. I'd be interested in helping if you're in my area

givemesteel · 25/01/2018 11:58

I haven't read the full thread so apologies if I'm repeating advice.

Landlord here, this is what I'd do, assuming you want to keep it as a btl.

  • don't replace furniture - you used to be able to reduce your tax liability by 10% a year to a count for depreciation of assets but they've done away with that so not worth having furnished properties anymore unless you're renting to students
  • minimise soft furnishings eg laminate instead of carpet, blinds not curtains as it minimises damage. Cheap white goods as even good tenants manage to break better quality ones somehow.
  • as everyone said £35k for non structural work is ridiculous, even what you describe I can't see why it woukd get in to 5 figures, need to get a few more quotes (you do it so it's not an older lady who they think they can rip off).

You may get better quotes if you gut it and get rid of damaged stuff yourself first so is a shell as all the detritus may be inflating costs in people's minds.

I'm sure you're aware insurance is a must, if you have a mortgage you're breaking the terms of your agreement if you don't have buildings insurance.

Get an agent to manage the property as your mother isn't cut out to do it, and you (or another competent adult) need to manage the agent relationship. Unfortunately you can't drop a ball with being a landlord, even if you're experiencing grief, ill health etc.

The only plus side is you won't be paying any tax on it for a long time as you can carry over a loss for quite a few years when you do your tax return.

Keep all your receipts, and a spreadsheet of what you've spent. I photograph each receipt and email them myself then put them in a folder on my email with the amount in the subject line.

suzy2b · 25/01/2018 12:06

i would either do the bare minimum to the house and sell it or just put it up for sale for £100.000 and see if anyone buys it don't go through an estate agent put it in the local paper

greendale17 · 25/01/2018 12:10

Your mum Ian certainly getting ripped off with the 35-45k costs to replace things.

Don’t let her agree to this

Putyourdamnshoeson · 25/01/2018 12:12

Just need to say, house a few down from us was in a bad but not horrendous state a couple of years back. The owner's son sold it for £80k, about £120k below what it would be worth top notch. It transpired that the estate agent's brother bought It, flipped it and sold it for £205k.

wasonthelist · 25/01/2018 12:16

Aibu to think this is fucking shit? Sad

YANBU but sadly some people are gits.

Vap0 · 25/01/2018 12:27

Sorry to hear about the problems you’ve had. It’s total shit. I’m a fellow landlord and know what horrific states they can leave places in. Regarding the costs, I think you need to shop around. I just did up a total wreck of a house, including ripping out the kitchen and bathroom, putting in central heating, full rewire, all new lights and switches and plug sockets, new fuse board, new bathroom, new kitchen which is nicer than the one in my own home, lovely tiled floor, fully carpeted throughout, re plastered throughout as there was damp, new plasterboard needed to go up in most rooms it was in such a bad state, loads of new floor boards as they kept breaking when anyone stood on them, loads of work on the roof too. The list goes on. I did a full job on the place ready to rent out (minus furniture) and it only cost £21k including all skip hire and gutting and painting, I couldn’t do anything myself as had a baby 2 days before completion then had no time. I’d suggest if you do decide to keep it then rent it out unfurnished as it’s much easier to manage and less for them to trash. I’d also shop around for estate agents to give you more price estimates as those figures sound up the pole.
So sorry it’s crap.
I’m currently dealing with a tenant who has managed to turn the grey carpet in the lounge black and cracked the sink in the bathroom. Nowhere near your problems but so frustrating when it was a total refurb they moved into only 2.5years ago. I just long for long term tenants...

JessieMcJessie · 25/01/2018 14:39

I sympathise with you and your Mum and absolutely agree that it sounds like the refurbishment quote is way off.

But even if it was right, your arithmetic on the value is just wrong:

House in good condition worth 150k.
Refurb costs 35k.
So value unrefurbished should be 150 minus 35 = 115.

If 45k current value and 35k refurb are correct then the top perfect condition value of the house would only be 80k.

Do you see?

It needs to be revalued.

Flyfisherlady · 25/01/2018 15:49

People are being a bit heartless slagging of OP’s mum saying “not fit to be a landlord”. Her husband died, she was very ill. Having had depression myself and having to fight everyday with all my might and get out of bed and keep living, I can understand very easily how things can slip. The good thing is that it’s getting sorted now.

taskmaster · 25/01/2018 15:51

It's not heartless. She was perfectly able to go to the property the minute the rent stopped coming in but not able to go at any time in the last 3 years?

For whatever reason she wasn't fit to be a landlord, she wasn't. At any time she could have got someone in to manage the place but didn't.

YakAStick · 25/01/2018 15:53

taskmaster is right.

Imknackeredzzz · 25/01/2018 16:10

I agree the tenants have been absolute shit

However your mum had responsibility’s as a landlord and did not satisfy any of them. If she did not have a valid gas safety cert and a tenant died due to a gas leak, you can only imagine the trouble she would be in.

No insurance is just ludicrous!!- EPC? Working smoke alarms? Booklet info for the tenants? Carbon monoxide detector?

She had responsibilities too- why on earth didn’t she just get an agent to manage?! I get there was a lot going on- but as a landlord she still has fundamental responsibilities and so my sympathy is somewhat limited

specialsubject · 25/01/2018 16:46

This is a terrible story and people who trash houses should be severely punished - except they never are.

But I also agree that it could have been much worse. a more savvy or even more vicious tenant could have got the landlords fined or imprisoned for some of the things that have not been done. There are huge responsibilities with being a landlord.

There are organisations that make a living out of advising tenants to go after delinquent landlords. It is not a risk worth taking.

Whizbang · 25/01/2018 17:14

Yep, another here who agrees with taskmaster. I'm really sorry this has happened to your mum OP, and also agree the £35k quote sounds like a scam and more quotes are needed.

However, bear in mind that the situation now could be a lot worse. If she has not been maintaining the property, and in particular the gas appliances, then her tenants were being endangered. Had one of them died through carbon monoxide poisoning for example, your mum's vulnerability would be no defence.

I advise getting more reasonable quotes, have the work done, then sell. Poor you and your mum...I bet this has put you both off being landlords anyway. Best of luck to you both.

lolalola19 · 25/01/2018 17:37

What scummy dirty people - what the hell is wrong with them, thick idiots. Sorry for your mum though Confused

PancakeInMaBelly · 25/01/2018 21:56

If they did sublet it I don't blame them! OPs mum expected her actual tennants to live like subletters: i.e. with no rights and just keep quiet & keep paying..... so in terms of ending up with subletters, if that's the case, she's reaped what she sewed!

She expected people to respect her property while she didn't respect that this was their home/lives enough to ask a family member of pay a letting agent to keep it maintained for them

Living in a property with a 'LL that doesn't give a shit is ruinous to your mental health and makes you feel like you're worthless because you rent!

PumpernickleInaWarehouse · 26/01/2018 12:14

Is this the property that is going around on Facebook with the piles of dog and human shit under the radiator?
If so when I saw it felt like crying for the poor owner it was by far the most disgusting thing I have ever seen.
I have no advice legally or anything but am so sorry for your mum.

trevthecat · 26/01/2018 12:26

This happened to my mil. They also left 2 huge dogs. Both fortunately very friendly. The house was absolutely disgusting. Oh it was vile. They had 2 small children living there also. They haven't left the country but they have offered £5 per month to pay for rent in arrears, cleaning and putting right etc. So far they have paid nothing. Absolute scum

WanderingStar1 · 26/01/2018 23:46

Agree with PPs, £35K is a rip off. Tradesmen will always massively up the cost of fixtures and fittings so definitely buy your stuff from B&Q or Wickes and then get quotes to fit it. And equally - no house value would drop from £100K+ to £45K just because it was in a state - your estate agents sound massively dodgy! Fix it up and either sell or continue to rent, but don't let these people rip your mother off! Good luck!

callmeadoctor · 27/01/2018 00:30

OP? (shouts OP loudly Wink