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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it's fucking shit if a tenant can get away with this???

231 replies

NamechangerRanger6 · 23/01/2018 14:43

My parents are landlords. My dad has unfortunately passed away so my mum handles it alone now. The last tenant was in the house for 8yrs. 3yrs ago being in and out of hospital and ill health meant that my mum stopped inspecting. There had been no issues at any inspections so it just didn't enter her head. She did however plan to inspect last year. I know this is heavily naive and if I knew this to be the case at the time I'd have advised her differently and offered to step in for inspections myself.

6 months ago the tenant very suddenly gave notice and moved out, mum went to inspect (I drove her) when the tenant had already left (the tenant wrote a letter and posted the key with it, so there was no time to inspect) What we found was absolute filth. Human and animal shit. Piss up the walls. Rotting food, the original furniture provided with the house was smashed to bits. Parts of the doors smashed in. The patterned red carpet was so dirty it looked a dark brown and you could see no pattern. There was a wet pile of bin bags up against the kitchen door, covered in fruit flies and maggots and god knows what else. I suspect this was the cause of the mold behind the door (the only mold on any fixtures we found - plenty of moody food, clothes and bits of carpet tho) Ashtrays turned up everywhere. The sofa had fag burns all over. Toilet ripped off the wall, bathroom sink smashed on the floor. Light fixtures hanging out by wires. There's more but honestly it would take all day to write it all. I can't think of anything that's been left undamaged.

Since then, the holes in the walls have been filled in and doors replaced. Carpets ripped up. A team of cleaners got the worst of the cleaning done. The total bill for this so far is £8000 (the cleaning alone was 2800, Trust me when I say I don't blame them for that price. It was horrific and I couldn't stand in the house for more than 10 seconds without heaving). Furniture cleared out etc etc.

My mum has sent the bill for all work to the now ex tenant, there was an initial response where they offered a £15 a month payment plan. My mum cried to me about it but accepted (fearing that if she pushed they'd pay nothing) after 2 months they stopped paying. She cannot at this time afford to have further works done. The total to have everything replaced even using the cheapest materials and not replacing like for like is about £35,000. She's looking at selling but has been advised that she'll be looking at maybe £45,000 as a sale price in the state it's in (in decent condition the house would be worth approx £150k).

My mum has been in contact with a solicitor but via some digging we've found out that the tenant has left the country - for Australia. Solicitor advises that if this is the case mum has an extremely slim chance of actually recovering any monies owed and chasing it across the globe would cost thousands upon thousands and likely require an international debt collection agency of some kind and the tenant can easily just ignore it.

Aibu to think this is fucking shit? Sad
I know that my mum should've done things differently but it seems very unfair that you can just book a flight and go to skip out on your financial responsibilities

OP posts:
wombatron · 24/01/2018 19:37

Hi OP. I know you said you would, but definitely get another quote. We bought a house in a rotten state - no where near as bad as yours but still bad - and we found it to be about 50k under typical value for the street. We are in London and that’s it’s own little world for property values, but if it’s been thoroughly cleaned and things have been replaced it will be a good blank canvas. A lick of white paint (or 10 or 12) and you’d be surprised how open people could be.

Are you near a major city where people work? Your property could be the type people downsizers or young buyers go for - if it was rented to 1 person I am assuming it’s a 2/3 bed at most. 1/3 of the price seems ridiculous from the first agent.

wombatron · 24/01/2018 19:37

And I’m sorry your poor mother has to deal with all this after what sounds like a hard time of grief and ill health. Some people are just bastards.

wombatron · 24/01/2018 19:45

Oh. And regarding your work that needs doing, go on trusted trader and put the jobs out for tender. You basically write an advert for what needs doing and people will contact you with quotes.

Our fitted kitchen from Wren was 4k. B&Q kitchens can be around 2/3k for the basics. Buy your appliances separately - do some research and see if you can get ovens and washing machines cheaper. they try and up sell to Bosch etc... my beko Washing machine is amazing.

For our bathroom I bought the tub and vanity online and we had a local plumber come and fit. It’s a lot of work but it can help you claw back some money. I have lists of websites we used for so much. If you need a hand feel free to PM

Ljtiling · 24/01/2018 20:05

Sounds a bit far fetched to me!!!!
You say they lived there with no problems on previous inspections so surly they would have been expecting a inspection again???
Sure the tenant didn't leave well before you say, and you just let the house sit empty for agesHmm whilst your mother was I'll.
As a landlord you should have insurance As well....

Bluffinwithmymuffin · 24/01/2018 20:05

Today 19:16 SkaPunkPrincess

Sounds to me like the original tenant sublet the property and has probably been in Australia for a while.

exactly what I thought

caringcarer · 24/01/2018 20:17

I bought new b2l that needed hurting. I bought 2nd hand kitchen from eBay with solid oak doors and bought new pewter handles and new carcasses. It cost £450. I got new worktops, cooker, hob, w m/c, dishwasher, dryer and fridge freezer, floor tiles, painted it white, white wall tiles. Total cost £3360. You should do some work yourselves as it sounds like a big chunk of bill is for labour.

PonderLand · 24/01/2018 20:21

Your poor mum, I agree that the prices seem to be wildly inflated. We've had work done on our house on/off for the last two years and it's so important to get 3 quotes for each trade we had kitchen fitting & small amount of structural work quotes range from 10k - £2500 for the same job.

I would also recommend mybuilder.com, it's free to use and only invite trades to quote who have a 98-100% rating with lots of reviews. I would also suggest that you or another family member is there to get the quote & check any completed work, just in case someone decides to take advantage of your mums situation. Make sure you get every detail of the work in writing and the price agreed. Do not accept estimations as they will take the piss if you let them, only quotes! If you do have an issue with a trade then write a review on mybuilder, Facebook, google etc and they'll soon finish the work to the right standard so you delete the review.

Whilst I understand that your mum has not done her job as a landlady correctly I still find it absolutely disgusting the way some tenants treat rental properties.

Rebel1 · 24/01/2018 20:24

Your poor mum, how dreadful. Yes you could say she should have done this or that but basically people should behave better. It's a very sad world we live in that someone would want or could do this to someone else's property. Has the tenant truly gone to Australia? They have rules about eligibility for emigrating so unless they are a citizen they won't be allowed to stay for long. If it makes you feel any better my grandparents rented out their house in London when Grandma went into a home. The tenants turned the house into a cannabis factory, bypassed the electric meter, had ducting coming out of the ceilings, turned the bedroom doors upside down, left soil ground into the floor and had a prostitute in the front room. You get the picture. Sadly there are scum in this world.

faultylightbulb · 24/01/2018 20:31

Get a number of estate agents' opinions - preferably not all local . . .

Do you think they'd have cause to lie about value? . . . .abso feckin' lutely . . . weed out the ones who have a "mate" in the trade looking for a bargain buy and happy to add to someone's misery and misfortune by taking from them whilst vulnerable. Yes they would.

Tweez · 24/01/2018 20:35

Don’t go for a Howdens kitchen...go for Ikea. We have a Howdens kitchen and there are a lot of ‘hidden’ costs & ours actually worked out rather expensive. It can also be a nightmare with deliveries of the kitchen as they often deliver wrong things and you don’t need that extra headache. I wouldn’t recommend them at all. Stick with Ikea or even Wickes. Best of luck

dementedmummy · 24/01/2018 20:40

I haven't read through all the threads but here's my tuppence worth from selling professionally. Get 3 estate agents in to value it - get them to quote you expected price, length of time expected to sell, buoyancy of the market and advise you are tendering for the work. This will mean you get the most competitive price for estate agency and will help you weed out any one in it at any cost by escalating the sale pricesignificantly when they are only going to tell you to drop the price in a fortnight. Also worth asking them for their views on undertaking the repairs. If you are not going to recoup your costs for repairing on sale you are only throwing good money away after bad. If you are going to undertake the repairs same principles hold - get 3 quotes for everything and for big/tricky jobs ask to view a previous example of their work with a previous client. Lastly dont write off the debt. Would be cross jurisdictional but could still be worth it. Could get decree here then continue to chase so debt does not extinguish. Worthwhile checking if tenant has been declared bankrupt (costs £1 assuming you are in England or wales) if so you can register as a creditor - might still get next to naff all but worth a shot as ppi claims form part of the process if any are outstanding. Unfortunately a very hard lesson learned here Flowers for you and your mum x

caringcarer · 24/01/2018 21:06

I must admit I don't do checks every 6 months because it feels intrusive. I only go once a year at most when gas cert is due. Most tenants treat property well as their home. Even so I do check references, passports, bank statement, take deposit and do full LL insurance. Do some work yourselves and get 3 quotes before selling. You might find handyman (possibly retired) who would do work cheaper.

JanKind · 24/01/2018 21:54

Yep. I had a tenant did the same. Australian. I live in Australia now can’t find her anywhere. Was gobsmacked as she seemed to be perfect tenant for two years and then Bam! Wrecked my lovely home. Spun my sweet husband a number of lines about Employer her owing money - mother in hospital anmongst other things. Owes me £12,000 and disappeared. Your tenant wasn’t by any chance Kerry Kemmis-Betty aja (Keery Fagan)?

browneyes77 · 24/01/2018 22:13

What an awful situation, your poor mom.

I have to admit the very first thing that flashes into my head was that these people were subletting. If all the inspections to that point had been spot on, then they don’t seem the kind of people who would leave the house in that state. I’m guessing they popped back there themselves at some point (maybe because the sub letters moved out) and saw the state of the place and realised they’d be in the shit, because if they said they hadn’t sublet they’d be liable for the damage and if they did say they’d sublet they’d be breaching their tenancy and still be liable for the damage. So they decided to hop it quickly before they could be caught up with! They have the money to go to Australia but not to pay for the damages incurred as well I see!

The quotes your mom has been given seem to be excessively high though? I agree with PP’s that you should get some other quotes. Are there any family or friends that could help out with some of the work? Call in a few favours to save money maybe?

bunbunny · 25/01/2018 01:03

Any chance the estate agent wants to buy the place themselves / with a builder mate, knowing they can do the work easily and cheaply (well much cheaper than you have been led to believe) and then make a very large easy profit at your mum's expense...?

Kerala2712 · 25/01/2018 01:10

My DH is a building contractor- he is renovating our house (replacing a bathroom and ensuite, adding a bedroom with additional bathroom, converting the loft, replacing kitchen, plastering and redecorating throughout, replacing 1 double glazed window and two pvc front and back doors, replacing some floorboards and fixing some guttering for £22k. Have a good look at what actually needs doing. He’s not doing all that himself. Could you do the basics and rent it again, and do bits as time goes by? Could your mum borrow against the mortgage/value to pay for work to be done? Is it necessary to sell it, or could you do just enough to rent?

Kerala2712 · 25/01/2018 01:12

And yes, estate agents lie in their sleep. Don’t trust any of them. Get several quotes and don’t tell them what the otgers have said- also get a letting agent round to tell you what needs doing to let it and how much they charge to manage.

keffie12 · 25/01/2018 01:55

I think you need to take over the costing or at the very least be there when the builders are in. With the greatest respect if there is a male who can also be around and oversee the quotes and work get them involved .

My husband and my 3nd son both worked/work in the building trade. They have seem these tricks pulled before by greedy builders and tradesmen.

One tried it on with my MiL and the bloke was known to the family. Needless to say my MiL sons who live in the same village soon sorted the bloke out. He tried to get another £5 k out or her. Yes she could afford it however she has the presence of mind to speak to the sons first.

As for the estate agent: your mum is being shafted again there also. He/she will habve someone lined up to buy it and he/she will be also in on it and taking a profit.

Get some more estate agents prices too. Please be there with her in future.

This is horendous and made worse by so called tradesmen trying to rip your mom off. Make sure she doesn't pay any money up front too. She doesn't need to pay until the work is done. Tell your mom to refer all questions and queries ftom any builder etc to you

kingjofferyworksintescos · 25/01/2018 03:26

I'm sorry that your poor mum is going through all this after she has already had a long sad time loosing your father

I would be inclined to get several estate agents to value and give opinions on selling vs refurbing the property including some that deal with auction property , prices do vary but £45 k sounds a low price even with the work to be done if other finished properties are making £150 k average

£35 k if you have a trashed property as you are describing actually sounds fairly light for a complete but basic refurb - I'm very up to speed with guesstimating refurb prices on all types of property . ( again get several quotes for the work ) It's the £45 k current value that sounds like it's wrong and needs several valuations to get it right - the auction route would be a good way forwards as without a kitchen or bathroom it will be unmortgageable

As a previous poster stated you should have a specialist property insurance in place that covers you as the house is empty .

Unless you or your mum really want to go down the route of refurbishment I would be inclined to encourage her to sell and not have the worry lingering over her - recoup what she can financially and put it in the past , giving her more freedom to get herself well again and enjoy life a bit more

lilypoppet · 25/01/2018 07:18

Was probably subletting to someone with a mental health or drug problem.

Offred · 25/01/2018 07:45

I think all this is very upsetting for you and your mum but she clearly made a number of mistakes re not having insurance and not doing inspections.

I agree that she should sell and that the £45k valuation sounds dodgy.

However, you could make a fundraising page and try and get some press attention for it.

InfiniteSheldon · 25/01/2018 07:56

The lunacy is strong on this thread Grin:
Landlord insurance pays out for everything
Do a whole house clearance clean gut and refurbish for £15,000 no £10,000 no £8,000
Homes Under the Hammer is an accurate guide for costing (my personal favourite),
Poor tenant deserves sympathy for imaginary MH problem, nasty landlady has no right to be ill
Unable to visit for three years then gets there in 24 hours
Gofundme is the answer.

This thread just keeps on giving,

Offred · 25/01/2018 07:59

‘The answer’?! More like a last ditch desperate option...

MsSquiz · 25/01/2018 08:06

I work for a property management company and we undertake quarterly inspections on all of the properties we manage. A lot of our landlords employ our services as they don't live nearby and so wouldn't be able to inspect the property on a regular basis without it inconveniencing them.
Regular inspections (with photographs taken) are both for the tenants and landlords benefit as it will help when claiming any money back from the DPS (showing the difference between general wear and tear or something being broken)

If the deposit was held with the DPS then I presume your mum submitted the bills and received the full deposit back?

Unfortunately this can be the outcome when properties aren't regularly inspected, but we have even had it happen to properties that are inspected quarterly!

unicornfarts · 25/01/2018 08:16

so sorry for you and your mum OP. We had a similar experience (though not as bad) when renting out our old house after moving down south for work. We think the man got into dealing weed.....the garage doors had been driven into by someone trying to break in to steal back stuff he'd stolen, the doors were ripped off hinges, weed-growing 'accoutrements' in the loft etc etc. Many months of rent arrears. By the end I was just so grateful to have house back - it was a real prospect that they would get the right to stay in the house for free because there was a baby involved. Terrifying how the odds are stacked against landlords - we're not all slum landlords trying to inflate the market!