To be furious?! Women's march?

[Goldmonday]

Have been seeing posts like this being thrown round on social media the past couple of days....am I the only one who thinks the whole world has gone bananas and we are now taking a huge step backwards???

Chugalug my 16 year old is the same, my 19 year old is more worried.

@AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth

I've been around for a while. No idea why you went to "tedious style" or "pedalling the same guff". I haven't changed my opinions and guess I may be recognisable but I've enjoyed discussing it on this thread and despite having different opinions to some other posters wouldn't describe it as guff.

Anyway, as you were. You clearly have so much to contribute!

@HairyBallTheorem

You're failing to differentiate between cognitive differences and personality traits. By your own admission, you keep posting the same ideas but you missed a trick here. No one has spoken about aptitude for a particular subject. Not that your unlabelled graph actually shows anything.

"Even then, you can't point to someone's height and say "look, this person is male, based on them being 3 standard deviations above the average female height." There will still be women that tall."

That isn't how statistics work. Guessing the sex of a single specimen based on height is unlikely to be correct. If you give me a sample of 1,000 then I'll be right most of the time.

If you toss a coin you may get 10 heads in a row. If you toss it 1,000 times, you'll be pretty damn close to 50:50.

Thinking a bit more about the whole "brain differences" thing - it really is down to how you conceptualize them, and it really is a quasi-religious thing.

A few years back there was much excitement in the science pages of the press about the so-called "God region" of the brain, which lit up on scans when religious believers were shown religious imagery, but not in the brains of atheists. In fact, the researchers could even induce "religious experiences" by artificially stimulating this part of the brain. However, as one of the researchers said, it still doesn't answer the question of whether there is a god. The scan results are consistent with two contradictory hypotheses. Maybe there is a god and this is the means whereby some people are able to sense his presence (in which case it does seem rather a mean trick to leave a substantial part of his creations without that ability - shades of the Calvinist thesis about the damned and hte elect). Or there isn't one, and some people simply think there is due to a quirk of brain chemistry/ anatomy.

Likewise with supposed "masculine" or "feminine" bits of the brain. Is it that people with a "feminine" bit are all genuinely women, or is it that some men have such bits? Ultimately, it's a bit like religion - you pick the interpretation which makes most sense to you personally and helps you get through life.

But this is where I have issues. No-one is going to force me with saying my catechism in religious terms (well, not post-enlightenment). But people do want me to repeat the mantra "transwomen are women", under threat of for instance being expelled from my political party (a party whose core beliefs are to do with helping the poor and underprivileged and setting up a more equitable society - nothing to do with core beliefs which claim that men can literally be women), or being doxxed and having my employer informed of my heresy.

No, it's you who are not understanding, foreigner. I'm not being asked to take a guess about populations. I'm being told to accept that this individual, this person before me with stubble and an adam's apple, who wants to perform my smear test, literally is a woman. That them having a certain percentage of neurones in a certain region of their brain makes them a woman, despite the fact that there are women with the same number of neurones in that region of the brain. You are the one who does not get the difference between the thing to be explained and the thing doing the explaining.

And I don't. He is a man. He can call himself what he likes, dress how he likes, I don't care. But I am not prepared to face a society which says "your choices are allow this man to shove a speculum up your fanny, or be faced with being struck off your GP's list for bigotry."

Well none of the points in the screenshot from OP reference sexism, apart from the last one, so I read it as someone who denies sexism exists and sexual assault and rape exists. The post itself is very offensive to all groups and not even relevant to British people so not sure why we’re giving it airtime?
There are so so many different forms of privilege:
Race privilege
Sex privilege
Class privilege
Orientation privilege
Abled privilege
2 parent family privilege
Postcode privilege
Beauty privilege
Cultural privilege
IQ privilege

Now some of these have a bigger impact than others, but we’re all individuals with individual experiences. No one has walked through anyone else’s shoes. When are we going to stop putting people in boxes & continue to ignore the bigger picture.

Oh and American privilege, let’s not forget that one..

@HairyBallTheorem

"I'm not being asked to take a guess about populations. I'm being told to accept that this individual, this person before me with stubble and an adam's apple, who wants to perform my smear test, literally is a woman."

What? I'm not sure if you posted on the wrong thread or what but you've gone off on an impressive tangent. What individual are you talking about?

Not a single person has been arguing anything you appear to refute.

I seem to have the minority view on this thread that gender isn't a social construct but I absolutely agree with other posters that trans people have no right to perform smear tests, literally be a woman or even compete in single sex sports.

The only thing you have done is show that rather than reading, you post pointless graphs and have little rants about trans people whether relevant or not.

Your pre-prepared posts make no sense.

Blue Thank you. I shall join you one day in fucking up the planet. I plan to learn to drive lol

TrinitySquirrel I have two. One is disabled, their future looks bleak.

It's you who is derailing the thread, Foreigner. As most people can see.

The world has gone acronym mad. There are women and there are men. I know there are a miniscule number of babies born where their sex isn't straightforward.

Anyone else can call themselves whatever the hell they want, but it doesn't make it so.

Why pander to this nonsense?

It's dividing and conquering. The quote in the first post highlights the differences between the different racial groups but not the similarities.

I am a white woman. I don't have to be black to be pissed off that black people are discriminated against.

I don't have to be asian to be appalled at the way many asian women are isolated by social, religious and racist influences.

I have never given birth, but discriminating against women of child bearing age and mothers is wrong.

I have been relatively lucky regarding contraception, menstrual problems, menopause and medical problems associated with the female reproduction system, but I have had some and I am appalled by the troubles some women have and what they're expected to put up with as normal.

I am bombarded every day with messages about women's femininity, stereotypes and over the years have had my education and later my career affected by my sex and people's attitude towards it.

I have been socialised to put others first, to be 'nice' and it's put me in awkward, uncomfortable and potentially dangerous positions at work and socially.

I have never suffered serious sexual assault, sexual abuse or been in an intimate relationship with an abusive partner.

I have never needed the services of Women's Aid, local shelters or the police but I am horrified by attitudes to domestic violence and efforts to cut funding to domestic violence programmes.

I suffer mental health problems which were diagnosed late in life precisely because I am an intelligent, well informed, well educated woman.

Now I am being treated for ADHD-PI and achieving so much at 50, I have wept at the lost opportunities and the wasted potential.

Attitudes to educating girls and women, our reproductive rights, our health in general, our right to be free from verbal, physical, sexual, emotional and financial abuse are all affected by our sex.

If a group of black women want to protest against a specific issue, one which doesn't affect me directly, but affects them because of their sex, then I will support them. I am happy to rattle buckets, sign petitions, sponsor people or write to my MP.

If asian women out there need to protest against something, I am prepared to help if I can.

It's not all about race, it's about supporting other women suffering because they are women.

Well educated, middle class, white women within the feminist movement are often in the best position to help.

They have campaigned for issues before and 'know the ropes'. They have a better understanding of politics, how to write to MPs, who to appeal to and so forth.

This racial dividing and conquering alienates white women who are sometimes the best able to help.

Here, in the UK, white people form the majority of the population. By splintering the racial groups from each other, it's easier to ensure that any attempt at raising awareness of any issue, whether it affects all women or a few, falls on deaf ears.

Yes, I am ignorant of many issues within the Afro-Caribbean community. Yes, I have no idea about the socialisation of asian women, but that doesn't mean I can't see women suffering and try to assist.

@theForeigner
At no point did I say I believe the views of someone half the age of a person in their 40’s is worth less. This isn’t even what I meant although I can see how it came across. I do not wish to explain my reasoning further. I find this continued picking futile. I have already apologised. Twice.

Thank you Rufus.

My posts are absolutely on the point of this thread. We have a transwoman, Bergdorf, telling women that centring women's biology on a women's march is transexclusionary. If it's not our biology what is it that makes us women? Trans activists on line frequently tell us that gender is in one's head, not between one's legs. Yet any examination of what the actual distributions of cognitive capacities look like reveals tiny difference, and massive overlap between the sexes. Pointing to a brain region, or test score, to determine someone's "gender" then conflating this with biological sex (the ridiculous "transwomen are women" mantra) makes no more sense than saying "you thought being a woman depended on having a certain reproductive system - well no it doesn't - henceforth, anyone below 5'7" who wants to say they're a woman is a woman."

There is no such thing as a "female brain" (beyond it happening to be in a female body).

@Hairyballs

Who the fuck is Bergdorf?

Honestly, lie down. Have a strong coffee. Re-read the thread and chill out.

A brief read of cognitive abilities vs personality traits really would help you too but there's been no disagreement on that topic here.

You're clearly a little riled (and good one you for being passionate) but equally clearly you've missed the point of any disagreements here.

I hope you find the help you need.

I don't think anyone thinks that men and women are identical do they? Of course they have different biology. That's kind of the point. And as for the positively Victorian obsession with trying to prove womens brain are inferior different. .who cares?
A 13 year old girl isn't catcalled in the street by grown men because of her brain. A 50 year old woman is not ignored in a meeting because of her brain. And as for "neuroticism and men presenting better in work situations" that is very much down to perception. The parade of tedious midle aged men in grey suits I used to work with were very used to being listened to (in fact pandered to). Of course they have more confidence! (And trust me, again, not because of their brains..)
It's all veering off the point which is that men have no place telling women how to be feminists. And who says all vocal feminists are white and middle class anyway? ? Not the ones I know.

Bergdorf is a controversial biracial transgender model, who was sacked by l’Oreal for some rather interesting views about white people, so not just on the trans issue. His/her views are absolutely the point of this thread.

I hope you find the help you need. ???

It's all veering off the point which is that men have no place telling women how to be feminists.

Don't forget that the comment the OP used came from a woman. I have no idea what men have to do with this thread.

Internalised misogyny is a direct result of misogynistic men.

I have no idea what men have to do with this thread.

Oh dear. OK. Men are hijacking women's marches with their own (trans identified) issues.

@IfNot

What does that have to do with the thread?

theForeigner you don't half go on do you?

Have been seeing posts like this being thrown round on social media the past couple of days

The thread is evolving

Even the OP referred to 'posts' over 'days'

It is not unreasonable for posters to reference other social media 'posts' they have seen over the last few 'days'

Transwomen are afraid of being denied access to medical care THAT THEY DON'T FUCKING NEED IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?

I have no idea whether redsatinsheets, quoted in the first post is male or female.

The point is babies are aborted because they're girls.

Girls are more likely to die in early childhood as poor parents favour boys over girls.

Girls are less likely to recieve an education at all, let alone a good one.

Girls are bought and sold as commodities, as domestic, industrial and sexual slaves far more than boys.

Girls are less likely to have any say in who they get married to.

Women are more likely to die as a result of marrying.

Women die in childbirth.

Women are murdered if they fail to bring a good dowry, fail to produce a male heir or any heir at all.

Women are considered beasts of burden or chattels and that's because of their biology. Their sex.

It's not a feeling. It's not something they can identify their way out of.

They are women. We are women and although we are privileged here in the West and although we have problems with gender pay gaps, discrimination and the like, this idea that men can identify with us is laughable.

Well educated, middle class, white women within the feminist movement are often in the best position to help.

Yes. And just as a point, Dr Radfem has been expelled from the Labour Party over the weekend for posting a meme which said 'Transwomen are men'. Which is true.