AIBU to ask for the repayment of this loan?

[Smudge100]

My niece decided a couple of years ago to retrain in a new profession – she is 38 and married with one child – and was going to take out a hefty commercial loan to pay for living expenses and tuition fees etc. I offered to loan her the money instead on a no interest basis, so that she wasn’t tied up in interest repayments as well as the repayment of the loan itself. I have no children of my own and can afford it and it was in fact my original intention to gift her the money, on the basis that she would inherit from me at some stage anyway. She expressed suitable gratitude at the time.

At Christmas we all gathered at her mother’s, my sister’s. I hadn’t seen her since last year and was looking forward to seeing her. However, from the look on her face when I greeted her, it was clear that my sentiments were not reciprocated. At one stage, she and I found ourselves alone in sitting room. I asked her a few questions about how the course was going and how she was etc.etc. perfectly normal conversation. She gave absolutely minimal answers and didn’t ask me anything about myself at all. At one point, unable to suppress the ennui she felt in my company, she sighed audibly. She later posted on FB a picture of a woman looking fresh and alert with the caption: ‘arriving for Christmas’. Next to it was a picture of the same woman, looking haggard and clutching the steering wheel of her car with the caption: ‘Three days later – I need a drink!’ I think it sums up her feelings about being around her mother, stepfather and myself. Obviously she can post whatever she likes on her own FB page but she knew that I would see it.

The course is ending later in the year and I believe she is fairly confident of securing employment in her chosen field (despite it requiring a degree of physical agility and her being seriously obese). As I say, it was my original intention to write off the debt, but as she has made her feelings towards me so abundantly clear, I am now disinclined to do so. I am also considering changing my will. There are plenty of charities that i support that would be grateful for my money and I would rather see them benefit than this entitled young woman. What would you do in my position? Am I over-reacting? All opinions welcome!

Quite apart from all the other nastiness, anybody who starts to threaten that they are thinking about changing their will is just being controlling.

You lent money. You didn't buy your niece.

And OP I think you sound nice. I would love an aunt like you.

The majority of the UK population is actually overweight, and a large percentage of that group is also obese.

Irrelevant here.

The fact is, a 38 year old woman acted like a rude, sullen teenager. Even though it sounds like you've all been nothing but supportive trying to help her retrain and change careers.

I wouldn't write off the loan yet. Treat her like a grown up, even if she isn't acting like one. When the training is finished, ask her what monthly repayment plans will be manageable to start with. Treat her like a grown up, and expect her to act like one. If she carries on with the behaviour she's just exhibited, then I suspect she's not planning to actually pay it back for a variety of reasons that will be forthcoming. At that point you can decide if you want to change your will.

You offered, she never asked, she could have got funding for the course. She was grateful at the time and probably still is.
You are being unkind about her weight and fair enough she wasnt as pleasant as you liked at Christmas but from reading between the lines i dont think she was offensive or mean to you just not as sociable as usual. For which there could be many factors and now that makes you want to demand the money back that you havent made clear repayment terms on and that you were planning on gifting anyway. She hasnt said she wont repay the loan at all.

You dont sound very nice either if im honest. You did a really nice thing and now you hold it as a noose.
I suggest you set clear repayment terms in writing immediately so that the noose is cut and no longer a threat and she can begin paying without you changing the imaginary goal posts in your head all the time as that is unfair.
And in future dont offer to loan anyone money without clearly outlining the Terms and conditions beforehand.

So sorry OP that your niece was so rude to you at Christmas. I'd also be on my guard about her continuing with the course because of the way she answered your questions.
Unfortunately, I don't know how you could find out if she's still on the course, I doubt if the college could tell you.

I don't have Facebook so I'm pretty clueless as to how it works, but would it be possible to look back on hers and see either any posts of hers concerning her course, or any chat between her and anyone she has met on the course, so you could get an idea if she'd dropped out or not.

Or could you look to see if she'd had a fabulous holiday or a new car or large home improvements or treated her husband or child to something very extravagant since you loaned her the money.

In your shoes, I'd change my will now so that she's no longer a beneficiary and wait and see what happens when her course finishes.

If she gets in touch all exuberant and breathless and says she's passed with flying colours and can't thank you enough for your support. Due to the good grade she achieved, she's got a new job and she asks when would you like repayments on your very generous loan to begin - that's the point I'd consider whether to make it a gift or ask for it to be repaid.

If you know the course has finished and you hear probably from her mother that she failed, with excuses like too ashamed to tell you herself, which could also be hiding the truth she dropped out, then you can decide to ask for repayment and it will be a little less hurtful for you at that time because you have already ensured she will not have any more of your money.

I really do think you need to consider yourself in this situation, you've tried to do something lovely for her and so far it looks as though something's not going to plan. Do whatever will cause you the least hurt depending on how things turn out.

This thread is a perfect example of how poor communication leads to misunderstang, resentment and feuds. Niece did not communicate well with you and vice versa - on the day you could have asked her why she was so deflated. You may have received a rational answer and an apology. Instead you are now brooding over her behaviour and imagining allsorts. Be a grown up op and call her.

She sounds rude to me.
OP, why not just ask her what was up?

I think Smudge is being entirely reasonable. It is hardly asking much to expect a mature woman to be polite, even slightly grateful, to someone who is enabling them to fulfil a long held dream. Regardless of what she weighs.

OP I totally get where you are coming from. If the niece was expecting to pay it back, just let her as agreed.

If you agreed she would pay it back then let her pay it back.

But it seems harsh to change your mind just because she was a bit grumpy over Christmas though! And your digs about her weight are just mean. She’s in a much better position than you to know if it’s a problem for her doing her job!

Don’t flap about saying you’re changing your will. Either do it or don’t do it, but don’t threaten it or use it as a hold over people.

I have a niece who has retrained and I helped her in whatever ways I could. She was very grateful and has continued to be a real delight and a genuinely positive presence in my life (I don't have any cash to leave though, and niece knows this).
However, if we spent Christmas together and she was "off" with me, I'd ask her why. It's so easy for things like this to get out of hand, when a quick chat about whatever was causing her (apparently) unusual behaviour could have sorted it out on the spot.

Is this normal behaviour for her? I suspect she was stressed out with her mother and the dynamics of her D.C. and DH? I think messaging her and asking if everything is OK forces her to respond. Much better than passively aggressively removing rewards.

She’s 38. You like her well enough to probably leave your estate to her. You can presumably tell if this is out of character or not. If it isn’t, and she’s usually like this, then a) why are you surprised and b) why would you lend it in the first place?

So she must usually be a reasonable human with whom you have a good relationship? So it’s more than likely it’s not about you, it’s about her, so be nice and find out what’s wrong.

Got to say though, if these views about her weight have been expressed to her within the family (by her Mum/Dad/you) then probably Christmas was a bit shit for her!

Did she know you were planning to write it off or did she think it was a loan. Depends how you left the original conversation.

She may be dealing with something else in her life which is why she was not very talkative at Christmas. She could be having worries about money, Heath, her weight, her partner, children. A lot of us are frazzled over Christmas. Hence the FB post.

If you are concerned then ask her if she's ok as she didn't seem her usual self over Christmas. Is it possible she may have failed the course or dropped out, or struggling to meet course deadlines and she's embarrassed? Sorry if there's more info posted since the OP as I haven't read entire thread.

Of course, you are entitled to leave your money to whomever or whatever cause you choose. However, if this money you gave her was agreed as a gift then you would be unreasonable to ask for it back. If it was agreed as a loan then no you would not be unreasonable to get her to start paying it back.

I think YABU to write her off so quickly. It sounds like you generally have a loving relationship with her, and I think you need to find out what has happened to change that. Reach out to her, tell her you miss hearing from and talking to her, and find out what's going on in her life.

Please don't act in haste. Don't even allude to the money until you've had a chance to understand the situation.

If you establish that your relationship is irrevocably damaged for whatever reason, then consider what your position is with regard to the loan. Perhaps you write it off anyway, as a gesture of goodwill towards the relationship you used to have, but leave her put if your will. Perhaps you ask for it back, but keep her in your will. But whatever you do, give it time.

I wouldn't read too much into the fb post, I have seen that kind of post many times, and lets face it we all feel like that after a few days of Christmas and it doesn't necessarily mean that she was thinking of your time together, it may just have made her laugh.

I think she was rude towards you, there may be something going on that she was nervous about telling you. I would get in touch and ask her how she is as she seemed a bit down at Christmas. You clearly have had a hitherto good relationship or you wouldn't have lent her the money in the first place.

You say that you hadn't seen her since last year which I presume was some time. Have you had ANY contact with her since you gave her the loan?
If so, what was she like towards you on those occasions?

Why have you not seen her in a year?

What business is it of yours, Blackteadrinker?

But you said that she was likely to secure employment so your suppositions about her weight holding her back were wrong. So why mention her weight at all? And what does her weight have to do with you lending or giving her the money?

Sonjadog - I said she was confident she would find a job, not that I was. I also didn't suggest that her weight had any bearing on my lending or giving her the money. READ THE POST before you comment!

If this is the way you generally think of and talk about people, OP, I'm not surprised she gave you short shrift.

JenniferYellowHat - you think my concern over the health of my 38-year-old niece, who incidentally is the mother of an 8 year old, deserves short shrift, do you? So you think I shouldn't care whether she has a heart attack or gets breast cancer?

Hmm you are starting to sound quite judgy. Also don't invite comment from a forum if you are going to get defensive.

Y

You lent money. You didn't buy your niece.

I wasn't trying to 'buy' her. It was, however, a festive time and the only time I get to see her, and the expectation that she be at least civil doesn't seem to be me to be too outrageously demanding.

But it didn't come across as concern for her health Smudge - you were putting down her belief that she'd get a job on completion of degree because of her weight.. no mention of concern on your behalf.