...to be baffled, sad and angry that Paris Lees is speaking at the Women's March tomorrow?

[ArcheryAnnie]

So, Paris Lees has been invited to address the "Time's Up" rally opposite Downing Street tomorrow, organised by the Women's March London. The "Time's Up" initiative "provides advice and support to women across all industries who have experienced sexual harassment or abuse at work."

But wait! Paris Lees is in favour of street harrassment of women, and writes articles in places like Vice, making sure lots of men know that catcalls are cool and sexy, and making sure lots of women know they have been "infantilised", and aren't nearly as brave as cool, sexy Paris, if they don't like it.

www.vice.com/sv/article/zn7b79/enjoying-catcalls-paris-lees-column

AIBU to be absolutely baffled, as well as sad and angry, that Paris Lees has been asked to speak for women at an event opposing sexual harrassment?

Jaygee61

I think it's a daft and disingenuous analogy. Eating a McDonald's doesn't, on any conceptual, or linguistic level, translate to casual sex.

Paris Lees, quite openly, claims that being treated badly by men is fun.

They have written about casual sex with five strangers, including the (taxi driver) in a way that makes it quite clear that being subjugated and treated badly is a bit of a sex fantasy.

Last summer I went to Ibiza, Spain, where I was catcalled, sexually objectified, and treated like a piece of meat by men the entire week. And it was absolutely awesome.

Just to add, I would be equally annoyed if Emily Ratajkowski was speaking at this event. She bangs on and on about "of course I can be sexy and sexual and still be a feminist" which is of course completely true but she is too thick to pick up on the fact that the real issue feminists have with her isn't that she's beautiful and gets her kit off, its that she got her kit off in the video for Blurred Lines, which is basically the most misogynistic song of the last ten years and appears to be about date rape.

Being treated like a piece of meat is rather the issue with sexual assault, so someone revealing in the is an issue at this event - surely you can see that Jay?

If she likes it and it’s consensual that is of course her affair. Wouldn’t be my cup of tea. If she’s encouraging men to treat women like that without their consent, well yes I can see that would be a problem.

Personally I'm baffled sad and angry that the rampant transphobia that has made FWR pretty much unreadable, is now spilling over so much into all other parts of Mumsnet.

You are baffled that a misogynist who promotes abuse against women and is pretending to be a woman is speaking at a women's march, and that women are not happy about this?

Are you for fucking real?

Sigh.

Apparently Jack Munro tweeted earlier about making the London one inclusive by not "centering reproductive systems".

"If you say a woman is only about psychology not biology then you minimise Women’s biological experience and their long struggle for reproductive rights. If you are blind to sex, it is inevitable you will be blind to sexism” (WPUK)

“It goes far beyond reproductive rights, it's the consequences of reproductive labour on women jobs, pensions and financial independence, the maternity death and post partum care; the widespread sexual harassment of female bodies;it goes on and on”

If anyone can paraphrase this on placards please?

From twitter, first Womems place uk, second a reply/addendum.

Men have never liked women speaking out, the actions of TRAs are just continuing in a long tradition of keeping women in their place.
I am absolutely fed up of men telling me how to do "womaning"

And no, trans women are not women, they are trans women. I will support their campaign to lead lives free from discrimination or abuse, but not at the expense of women's rights. They need to campaign for themselves, not just try and take over women's spaces and rights.

Men have always told women how to be women. It’s just a continuation.

" I may not represent all women"

Too right ducky , guess what , you don't represent any women.

When did "men" become one homogenous group that we can discuss as though they all think as one?

When did "men" become one homogenous group that we can discuss as though they all think as one?

When they commit 98% of sexually violent crime?

When they commit 90 percent of violent crime?

Not all men do these things, but generally only men.

No of course. Transwomen should absolutely have a platform to talk about abuse they receive.

But that generally stems from homophobia. Men do not like to see gender nonconforming men.

Women's abuse stems from misogyny. It's completely different.

I object to somebody born male talking on my behalf about abuse they will never have received. Because it's not on the basis of their female reproductive potential. Whereas mine is.

Thank god for Datun.

Oops that was all supposed to be in quotes/ bold, sorry Datun!

98% committed by what percentage of men?

I'm not sure you have a firm grasp of statistics - certainly not enough to use them in an argument.

You got a nice little NAMALT in though; I guess it has the same function as "I'm not racist, but why do black people ... "

I'm not disputing statistics you've used, I just see that they don't prove what you think they do. To support your reasoning, most men need to have committed these crimes not these crimes being committed. Do you see the difference?

I take equal umbrige with posters speaking about "us" as women. People have no right to assume they speak on behalf of anyone besides themselves.

When did "men" become one homogenous group that we can discuss as though they all think as one?

Well, when did "women" become one homogeneous group that includes men?

Why can't the bandwidth of being male be widened to include transwomen, and at the same time do some work on dismantling the patriarchy, the sex-gender stereotypes and the misogyny that is likely to have led young boys to want to reject their own sex? That would go some way to breaking the homogeneity of being male and being the sex responsible for the majority of violence and DV and all rape.

Of course not all men do these things, but I've never come across a woman on twitter of here saying "kill men" as the TRAs (mostly male) say - "kill terfs" etc.

LettersAndNumbers

I'm sure what you're arguing for?

I think you're saying that it's only a certain percentage of men who do that?

Which of course, is correct.

Unfortunately, those people do not have sex offender stamped across their forehead. It would be so much easier if they did.

The #metoo campaign ran to million posts in 24 hours.

No one can tell if a man is a predator or not. All we know is they belong to the cohort who are.

If you're trying to say that male violence doesn't exist and has a significant impact on women, I completely disagree.

12 million

I take equal umbrige with posters speaking about "us" as women. People have no right to assume they speak on behalf of anyone besides themselves.

If it doesn't bother you, then it doesn't apply to you.

People have no right to assume they speak on behalf of anyone besides themselves.

It's usually the case until they them selves are affected by the issues discussed in some way and then are empathetic to the issues experienced and faced by a group that refers to them selves as 'us'.

Love reading Datun's well measured, calmly delivered information on this topic 👌🏼

I wish datun was speaking at this event

Totally aGree with this post Ekphrasis Sun 21-Jan-18 11:44:22

It's becoming ever more clear that the whole TIM thing is just men who want to shit all over women's rights and find a way to force women to be back to being nothing but baby carrying sex objects.

I was just reading the Paris Lees article linked above, 'The 22 sexiest things about sex.'

I think I already know the answer but does anyone on this thread know any women at all in real life who would willingly write an article about sex like this. Or talk about sex like this full stop.

When your trusted fuck-buddy stuffs socks inside your mouth and ties your hands behind your back while ramming you like a champ

call me a slut and tell me to suck it

This is hot when you just want to get fucked like an animal

I know a lot of women of all ages. I can imagine most of them love sex. Many of them are coupled up. I can't honestly picture a single one of them using this kind of language if they wrote an article about sex, even if you told them they could write anonymously and write anything they wanted without judgement.

It's just so extremely male.