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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To believe “wind the bobbin up” is inappropriate and to ask my child’s Nursery not to sing it.

534 replies

coconuttella · 20/01/2018 20:35

Wind the bobbin up originated in the cotton mill towns of the north of England in Victorian times. As anyone who knows a bit about a bit history can tell you, the cotton mills were horrendous places which horrifically exploited women and children, forcing them to do dangerous work in appalling conditions for little pay.

How can it be right to trivialise these horrors by getting children to sing a light-hearted ditty about it... It’s offensive to the memory of all those who suffered these horrendous conditions and experienced serious injury or even death as a result of hideously exploitative working practices.

OP posts:
OlennasWimple · 20/01/2018 22:49

"Wind the bobbin up" is inappropriate simply because it's the most irritating nursery song ever and makes me want to stab people in the eye with the aforementioned bobbin.

It's even worse than the naughty, bed-jumping monkeys and Miss Polly's poorly dolly

SpringBlossom2018 · 20/01/2018 22:50

Wind the bobbin up was my DDs favourite nursery rhyme, we had to sing it 20,000 sodding times a day, and now this thread has given me a pang of nostalgia because my happy carefree bobbin singing toddler is now a sulky preteen.

ZaZathecat · 20/01/2018 22:53

Maybe it's am opportunity to teach a bit of history instead of banning it.

AnnieAnoniMouse · 20/01/2018 22:59

This is clearly a wind up.

coconuttella · 20/01/2018 23:00

MaryMayMay

You seem determined to make thus about the thread that inspired this one even though it’s barely referenced it with the exception of your posts and one of mine at the beginning.... so ok I’ll take the bait...

Do you believe Wind the Bobbin up is offensive? If so why? If not, why is this little ditty referencing an horrifically exploitative and oppressive industry in a light hearted manner ok, whereas the comment “at least you’re not in a concentration camp” as a way of making the point to whiny children (and in so doing possibly referencing the Holocaust) isn’t?

OP posts:
AnnieAnoniMouse · 20/01/2018 23:01

arf Arf arf...

Shame though. I was hoping you’d get it banned. Not for any reason other than I hate it. Tedious little ditty.

MexicanBob · 20/01/2018 23:04

You need to get out more OP.

cafeaulaitpourvous · 20/01/2018 23:04

OP - I am a direct descendant of Lancashire mill workers

You are literally erasing my culture

How dare you

.... have you got nothing else to worry about?....

idontlikealdi · 20/01/2018 23:04

They're all offensive in some way or another. My mum's Irish and I never understood the significance of Knick knack paddywhack until she pointed it out.

ziggiestardust · 20/01/2018 23:07

This is clearly a wind up thread. These comments will be on the DM website before Monday morning I’m sure...

TakemedowntoPotatoCity · 20/01/2018 23:07

I've always wanted to use this! Biscuit

ambereeree · 20/01/2018 23:10

Baa baa black sheep isn't about race- its about the high tax on black wool. Master is the king Dame is the church and little boy is the farmer.

Crumbs1 · 20/01/2018 23:12

I’m recalling many happy hours singing clap clap pull pull pull.

Yes the mills were challenging for many and child labour was the norm but the mills in model villages such as Sunlight, Bourneville and Saltaire also offered education, decent housing and stable employment to families that were otherwise destitute.

We don’t stop singing ring a ring o roses because the plague was dreadful. Nursery rhymes and fairy stories are a way of children learning about and coping with difficulties. Read Bettelheim’s The uses of Enchantment.

Beeziekn33ze · 20/01/2018 23:16

Bournville offered a lot to Cadburys' employees but never had mills, only chocolate!
It was still a good employer until the Krafty US takeover.

SilverOnToast · 20/01/2018 23:18

It’s an urban myth that ring o ring o roses is about the Plague.

thecatfromjapan · 20/01/2018 23:20

This post's a bit wanky. Why not argue your point elsewhere, and coherently?

Your analogy is false, not least because the rhyme is a song made by an oppressed group. The power differential is different.

And, yes, the mills were horrendous. As I'm sure you know, workers were flogged - occasionally to death - if they didn't work fast enough.

This is, after all, simply an internet forum, but I have a strong suspicion you are a lot less informed than you think you are.

RamseysIdiotSandwich · 20/01/2018 23:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thecatfromjapan · 20/01/2018 23:47

Sorry. That was intemperate.

I've been cross all day. I've been thinking about the children I encounter in classes in schools. In an average classroom, I will encounter children who have fled war zones, whose parents are experiencing/have experienced modern day slavery, who have a cultural history of slavery.

Yes, i moderate my language to take account of those experiences. Any normal person, with half an ounce of humanity and a little knowledge would do so.

To encounter generalisations, that interpret a basic act of moderation as an infringement on some idealised, never-realised in actuality, notion of 'freedom of expression', is really annoying and quite troubling.

We all moderate what we say and do , all the time, depending on our audience, our intentions, and what we know.

We live in a society where such moderation is, actually a legal requirement, there is no such thing as 'free speech': it's an ideal, against which we debate what can and should determine our moderations. Sometimes, those moderations pass into law, sometimes they are a convention, many times they are an improvised moderation, contingent on particularities.

We - most of us - are fairly sensitive of others, and do not deliberately aim to cause offence or hurt. Often, we want to improve, enhance and make progress by way of our speech acts.

We - most of us - are very capable of realising that not all speech acts need the regulation of the law, and that there are speech acts which, while not illegal, would be massively inappropriate/insensitive/hurtful in specific contexts.

We - most of us - manage to make judgment, all the time, regulating our speech acts so as not to cause hurt, offence, whatever.

We - most of us - know that a particular speech act, in a particular situation, or the moderation of speech acts in particular locations, at particular times, do not, necessarily, need to be translated to a universal act or moderation, to be applied uniformly, across all civic spaces (don't need to be converted into law).

We - most of us - are very aware that asking for sensitivity for certain things, for certain audiences, is not, necessarily, the same as asking for a blanket ban on nursery rhymes. As functioning adults, we know we can make choices.

I'm really, really fed up with this whole "I can't say anything these days. It triggers the snowflakes" thing.

You would never dream of sitting down and making hilarious jokes about slavery with your Afro-Caribbean boss, would you? Or with a child, who you know has a mother who was forced to work for food, in slave conditions, because she came to the UK without a proper visa and found herself paying off a huge debt to the people who arranged it.

It's not a big deal. You employ your intelligence to speak sensitively. It's not the end of Western civilisation.

thecatfromjapan · 20/01/2018 23:47

Yep.

That was still intemperate.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 20/01/2018 23:49

Silverontoast, do elaborate about ring o’ roses. I’ve heard the plague explanations and thought was fact

BewitchedBotheredandBewildered · 20/01/2018 23:50

Well, I'm utterly distraught.

The lady with the alligator purse was always my favourite.

And I thought she said ...

... Pizza!

This thread is "a wind up" hahahahahahahahaha!

tiptopteepe · 21/01/2018 00:20

id agree... if the lyrics were 'working in the mills was so much fun, no one suffered, lets bring it back. Its all fine now no need to protect women and children from exploitation any more and there never really was. La la la la. Put your hands in the air like you just dont care!!'

Erm but as far as im aware those arent the lyrics and the lyrics simply reference mills in a neutral and brief manner.

Weedsnseeds1 · 21/01/2018 00:21

I've never heard of " wind the bobbin up" ( maybe grew up in the wrong part of the U.K.
As a child in early 70s there was some sort of BBC programme with songs for schools.
We learned
Black Velvet Band
Wild Colonial Boy
Botany Bay
and various other songs that would not be considered suitable for under 11 today. We survived.

tiptopteepe · 21/01/2018 00:23

also I agree with thecatfromjapan

This is not the same at all as asking people to just have a think about the message of 'sleeping beauty' or not to put a black model in a hoody which says 'monkey' on it when the white model is wearing a different hoody.

You see women and children in this country arent still being exploited in mills however rape culture is alive and well and so is racism. So I think theres a bit more of a leg to stand on when you ask people to just take the time to consider these issues with sensitivity.

gillybeanz · 21/01/2018 00:26

Can I take this opportunity to share this with you OP, and anyone who may be interested.
I have so much admiration for thes two, the work they did was phenomenal

blogs.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/archivesandmanuscripts/2017/03/07/opie-archive/

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