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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Unmarrried middle class parents...

175 replies

RoseWhiteTips · 20/01/2018 14:05

Unmarried middle-class parents more likely to see their children drop in social status

Children of professional parents who were not married had a 53 per cent chance of being on benefits, compared to 37 per cent for those whose parents had married.
(The Telegraph 20th January 2018)

Would you seriously consider marriage to safeguard the future status of your children?

OP posts:
zsazsajuju · 20/01/2018 17:34

Marriage foundation, jeezzzoooo

When you control for the effects of poverty, single mothers children don’t do any worse than children from married families. I think divorce and conflict ofc affect children negatively but so do unhappy marriages.

It’s bollox that marriage has a protective effect. It’s a correlation.

SusanBunch · 20/01/2018 17:35

you surely wouldn't start this thread on the strength of a 300 word article in the Telegraph

Hah, Pax, you're giving waaaayyy too much credit to this OP....

Alittleconcerned1980 · 20/01/2018 17:37

Having recently gone through a divorce I would plead with co habiting couples to marry. Or rather the weaker financial party, eep is you are a SAHM!

CharizMa · 20/01/2018 17:38

There have been more recent studies (and sorry I wish I could link) but they have shown that the most significant indicator of negative outcomes is POVERTY.

So I do think that the family is of course a more successful financial unit and that if you're not married, you often leave with children but with fewer assets. So more responsibility but less money. It also seems to me that married fathers are ordered to pay more maintenance. I keep hearing of fathers who weren't married to the mother and they get off scot free, ordered to pay about a tenner a week. It beggars belief.

I can tell you that it made me a LOT more sympathetic to the obstacles to employment and social mobility, issues relating to poverty and how a lot of problems can be solved with money. It made me think more about how women bare the brunt of the responsibility of parenthood which is something that probably affects a mother less when she's in a family unit.

My whole view point has changed so substantially that I wouldn't send my children to private schools even if I had the money now but whereas I grew up, it wasn't just that, I had music lessons, ballet lessons, a lot of stuff I haven't bothered with / couldn't afford for my own children. I suppose I could have afford it but I was channeling every cent in to bricks and mortar to try and counter the fact that I wasn't raising the children in a successful economic unit, ie, family!

I'm not looking for sympathy. I'm glad now. DC are fine, better than they'd be if were all still trying to pretend to be a family just to be conventional. I feel very independent now and exempt from 'class' somehow and far less classest than I was on a subconscious level as the whole experience has taught me what it's like to have people prejudge.

My DC1 has a terrible accent now and I'm less bothered about that than I would have been once so I think my 'status' has slipped too! Mine more than theirs imo. I do still feel like my DC1 has every opportunity if she works hard but she will have to.

caoraich · 20/01/2018 17:39

Morals are at an all time low

Goodness. My partner and I like to jokily say we "live in sin". No idea some people might take that seriously...

Ironically, we actually have more legal paperwork than most married couples because we're both doctors and have seen the shit that can happen in families when people get sick and/or die, married or not.

NB I've also read the study and it's utter pish when it comes to their methodology.

Friedgreen · 20/01/2018 17:39

My guess is this applies to unmarried partnerships where the woman doesn’t work.

Tinycitrus · 20/01/2018 17:40

Im sure it's likely to do with the type of people who don't get married as opposed to those

What ‘type’ is that then?

GiveMyHeadPeaceffs · 20/01/2018 17:40

No, I think it's a load of old guff to put pressure on people to "conform" and marry and be good little citizens. Well they can fuck right off. I'm professional and not married and have no intention of marrying under the notion that it'll help protect ds from having to claim benefits. What a load of utter shite Hmm

Thehogfather · 20/01/2018 17:41

right yeah you fucked up there. I married the abusive mc arsehole, and then divorced him. So I am a better parent than you and my dd has better prospects. That now defunct wedding certificate has been of huge importance, it's stopped me playing musical step dads, whereas naturally you must be introducing new men all the time. And doing all the stereotyped shit.

Although I'm possibly as bad, I was a young mum who started divorce proceedings whilst pregnant, so I'm an inferior parent on that account.

Funnily enough I have yet to find any studies about traditional two parent families versus single that isolate the issues caused by poverty.

Bet if anyone limited the data to household incomes above average there'd be no difference in whether a traditional family has better outcomes. Don't see why there would be, there's advantages and disadvantages to both.

SleepingStandingUp · 20/01/2018 17:41

*speakout are you advocating no one has sex outside of marriage or a higher abortion rate??

SusanBunch · 20/01/2018 17:43

There have been more recent studies (and sorry I wish I could link) but they have shown that the most significant indicator of negative outcomes is POVERTY

Agree. It is also why there is a better outcome for children in societies where there is a much better social support network, for example in Scandinavia. Interestingly, there is not a higher marriage rate there and there are plenty of single parents, but they have a state that does not allow children to grow up in poverty with no educational or other opportunities. Sadly we are not so lucky and as an added bonus, we get to blame the mothers for it rather than the government.

swingofthings · 20/01/2018 17:44

A lot of confusion between correlation and causation on this thread.

Children of non married parents more likely to be on benefits doesn't mean that if you marry your partner, your children are less likely to be on benefits than if you remain unmarried.

Similarly, the most negative indicator to benefits being poverty doesn't mean that lack money is what causes this outcome.

speakout · 20/01/2018 17:45

Sorry- being sarcastic.

I despise the institution of marriage.

Apologies if I offended.

OH and I have had a stable relationship of 22 years and raised 2 well adjusted bastards.

Just a little angry at the whole suggestion.

SusanBunch · 20/01/2018 17:51

No, I think it's a load of old guff to put pressure on people to "conform" and marry and be good little citizens

Yup, marriage is awesome for the state. It means it doesn't have to give a shite about making sure that its citizens have a decent standard of living because all financial responsibility is privatised. If you're poor, it's your fault- you should have got married to someone wealthy.

PancakeInMaBelly · 20/01/2018 17:51

I think it makes sense. I've seen many naice comfortable couples split and the man stays comfortable and the woman ends up stuffed due to not having been married when she stayed home with the babies while the man built up his career/business. Happens A LOT.

So most frequently the kids live mainly with the mum who is now poor. Being raised poor makes it more likely to stay poor.

Battleax · 20/01/2018 17:51

You do that a bit too often and a bit too convincingly speak.

SusanBunch · 20/01/2018 17:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SusanBunch · 20/01/2018 17:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PancakeInMaBelly · 20/01/2018 17:51

I think it makes sense. I've seen many naice comfortable couples split and the man stays comfortable and the woman ends up stuffed due to not having been married when she stayed home with the babies while the man built up his career/business. Happens A LOT.

So most frequently the kids live mainly with the mum who is now poor. Being raised poor makes it more likely to stay poor.

Battleax · 20/01/2018 17:51

You do that a bit too often and a bit too convincingly speak.

SusanBunch · 20/01/2018 17:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Saucery · 20/01/2018 17:53

The Marriage Foundation, eh?

Move along, nothing to see here

Saucery · 20/01/2018 17:54

The Marriage Foundation, eh?

Move along, nothing to see here

SusanBunch · 20/01/2018 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 20/01/2018 17:54

Who wants to have children outside marriage? well actually 47.7% of parents do

The long-term rise in the percentage of births outside marriage or civil partnership has continued, with 47.7% of all babies born outside marriage or civil partnership in 2015. Source ONS