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AIBU?

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Original poster

... to feel disgusted at fox-chasing toff-twits!

732 replies

counterpoint · 13/01/2018 21:44

On my way to a local town for lunch today, we had to slow down and stop as a horse came galloping up towards us in the middle of the road. On his back sat a dandified twit who was looking for his hounds. In the nearby field some 100 (I kid you not) other starched twits sat on brainwashed horses with hungry hounds running amok. Traffic swayed and stopped as these twits had clearly lost the little sense they had and were dispersing all over the highway, horses looking dazed at being led among cars at great speed on slippery tarmac. Hounds confusedly sniffing all over the road and verges. How much had these twit-toffs drunk? It was not yet noon!

My friends in our car tried to calm me down saying it must be a drag when all of a sudden a poor defenseless fox jumped on the dry-stone wall looking wild-eyed as it tried to determine whether he was safer making a run for it across a busy road or turn back into a field of crazed, uncontrolled hounds and drunken (British?) twits. The fox froze and the driver of my car sped on as I screamed with panic for the predictable fate of the fox.

Why the f*ck is a supposedly civilized country allowing this kind of savagery to continue?

OP posts:
TTCI · 14/01/2018 10:07

Oh yeah I missed a post by @VivaLeBeaver so must have got confused in my rage apologies!

Middleoftheroad · 14/01/2018 10:08

**you cannot tar all hunters with the same brush.

I can. But the ones who are polite to other humans are OK? Nothing polite about chasing a defenseless creature.

mustbemad17 · 14/01/2018 10:08

YoungMystery that is always my argument; if a hunt knows they are complying with the law, they have nothing to fear. I've seen a lot of sab videos of hunts ambushing them to get hold of the camera...which suggests they have something to hide.

There is absolutely no excuse for a sab to be hurting a horse or a hound, at all. I like the groups that insist everh sab wears a body cam, because then nobody can claim something untoward happened

Youngmystery · 14/01/2018 10:10

I can. But the ones who are polite to other humans are OK? Nothing polite about chasing a defenseless creature.

No you can't. What about the hunts that Don't hunt animals, like I said? You cannot say they are the same as the ones that do. They are doing nothing wrong. As I said if you had read my post, as long as they aren't hunting animals, are being safe and polite, not letting hounds run riot, you have nothing against them.

famousfour · 14/01/2018 10:11

I don't hunt and have never even seen one (town dweller). However, I would see the argument in favour of not banning as follows -

To my mind you need to have very good reasons to 'ban' things in a liberal society (which I support). The fact that you don't like something that another group does is not of itself sufficient.

As a society we accept killing animals where necessary either for food, clothes or culling. There are welfare standards - of sorts. Assuming the fox must end up dead anyway (population control) it seems to me the only basis for banning fox hunting is either because in principle we think that killing as a sport is bad for society or because we think it breaches such animal welfare standards. Blood sports are not currently banned (eg fishing) so obviously as a society we don't think it is unacceptable (yet) and as others have pointed out there are many worse animal welfare issues - such as the famous chickens.

So the questions to my mind should be - is population control of foxes going to happen anyway, is this a sufficiently humane way to do it?, are we as a society accepting some blood sports in principle or if we don't why not (finding it personally distasteful is not sufficient I think). Talk about red coats, toffs and twits just raises the suspicion that this the is about class and red coats (and because I think it is not does the debate a disservice). And that is no basis for making decisions in a liberal democracy IMO.

As it happens on balance I agree with the ban from an animal welfare point of view. But I accept there may not be a good way for some of these foxes to go. As it happens I also agree with improving standards for the famous unhappy chickens. I also dislike the idea of commercial shoots burying birds. Toffs and twits don't come into it though.

Youngmystery · 14/01/2018 10:12

mustbemad exactly fully agree with you. Not everyone understands that though. I wouldnt care if someone videoed me hunting as I know I would be doing nothing wrong. I wouldnt be involved with killing animals and there's no way I would let my horse be out of control.

Middleoftheroad · 14/01/2018 10:12

Upthread I posted an article on drag hunts. A real eye-opener.

WhyDidIEatThat · 14/01/2018 10:17

Article mentions evidence of illegal activity but doesn’t seem to include any?

Rebeccaslicker · 14/01/2018 10:18

I wouldn't disagree with drag hunting if I believed that they didn't rely on the shittily drafted hunting act to "mistakenly" kill foxes a lot of the time. There's a hunt in Cheshire that's well known locally for using this to flout the ban.

mustbemad17 · 14/01/2018 10:18

Middle that's an interesting article, and actually very eye opening. Raises some good questions!

Youngmystery · 14/01/2018 10:20

But that is not drag hunting, as the article clearly says. That is the hunt lying and somehow getting away with it. A drag hunt follows a fake trail and it is the masters job to follow the correct trail and make sure the hounds don't go off track.

Sorry but you're still wrong. Not all hunts are the same. Some yes do break the law and sadly kill foxes. Most do not. As I even said, some don't even use hounds.

jacks11 · 14/01/2018 10:20

middleoftheroad

Oh and we're not fooled by trail hunting

Oh don't be such a "twit" as you like to call everyone who doesn't 100% agree with you! Drag (or trail) hunting existed before the ban on hunting with dogs was brought in. It still happens now. I have been to quite a few and can assure you that on the meets I have been to the hounds did not chase or catch a fox- they followed the scent already laid down. There have been occasions where they have come across a fox- it's impossible to say that will never happen- but the hounds have been recalled.

The other benefit to drag hunting is that the hunt also only crosses land where the landowners are happy for the hunt to be there.

As I said, I am not naive enough to think that hunts never break the law (and the prosecutions that have taken place prove that). Some hunts are definitely worse than others for this. But please don't be so ignorant to assume you know that everyone who goes hunting is desperate to see a fox pulled apart. Because you are wrong.

I think those who break the law should be prosecuted. I also think the law is badly drafted and this makes prosecution more difficult than might otherwise be the case.

I have come across quite a few Sabs who peacefully monitor what is happening, and I have no issue with that. I have also come across Sabs who are abusive, aggressive and in a few rare cases have actively tried to cause harm- these sabs should be dealt with too.

Not all people who take part in hunting are wealthy or "toff's" either BTW.

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 14/01/2018 10:23

I look forward to the day when this shitty, barbaric practice is gone forever.

mustbemad17 · 14/01/2018 10:23

So if no foxes are being pursued, why are terrier men still used? Many, many hunts still use them...surely they should be redundant in this day & age?

mustbemad17 · 14/01/2018 10:26

Personally I don't think any type of hunting with a pack of hounds should be allowed. Aside from the obvious risk of a poor fox gettinf caught up - 'accidentally' or otherwise - there is lots of evidence that hunts really cannot control their dogs. I don't see why other people should suffer damage to their properties & the loss of family pets simply because somebody wants to run a pack of uncontrolled hounds across the country

WhyDidIEatThat · 14/01/2018 10:26

Some of you aren’t fooled by trail hunting, others aren’t fooled by sabs peacefully filming - somewhere in the middle are normal people undertaking lawful activities.

Middleoftheroad · 14/01/2018 10:26

@jacks11 not sure I called anyone a twit.

LabradorMama · 14/01/2018 10:26

What @Zoopdragon said

jacks11 · 14/01/2018 10:27

mustbemad

Yes, I agree. Our local hunt does not have terrier men. So again I say to you that some hunts follow the law, some do not. Those that do should be prosecuted.

jacks11 · 14/01/2018 10:29

middle of the road

Apologies, I see that was the OP and some other posters. Sorry.

That said, I stand by the fact that you are wrong in some of the statements you make as being fact for all hunts and all people who go hunting.

WhyDidIEatThat · 14/01/2018 10:30

Banning things isn’t helpful, it will die out sooner or later anyway as fewer and fewer landowners allow the hunt on their land.

Rebeccaslicker · 14/01/2018 10:30

I guess labradormama would be thrilled if this happened to her Labrador:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/horrified-onlookers-watch-pack-hounds-364896.amp

mustbemad17 · 14/01/2018 10:30

But still run with dogs? That for me personally is also an issue...as I have mentioned. There is no way a pack of hyped up hounds can be under control, sorry.

I have no issue with people taking their horses out for a good hack - which basically is what it is. But there's no need to take hounds imo

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