To think banning the sale of the daily mail goes against all free speech stands for

[BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot]

Now I'm not a fan of it but everyone is allowed to speak their views. Aibu to think banning the sale of any one news outlet goes against the principles of free speech?

I was aware of Virgin no longer selling the paper on their trains but as far as I was aware they hadn’t banned people from being able to bring their own copies on to their trains to read?

People can still read the Daily Mail on a Virgin train, they just have to purchase it elsewhere first. The Daily Mail cannot force another company to distribute it. Virgin employees don’t want to have to face a daily diet of gay and immigrant bashing which is fair enough. I think people are starting to realise that the paper offers nothing positive to this county and profits from heightening peoples fears and anger. If the country is to ever come together over Brexit which it needs to, the Daily Mail needs to change.

TulipsInAJug which universities have stopped stocking the Daily Mail and Express? Is it the student unions or the universities themselves? I'd not be at all surprised if some student unions don't carry those papers in their own shops. Student unions often provide platforms to activists and some of those are likely to be leading the push to get what they consider unacceptable views heard. Worth remembering that although all students belong to the SU generally voting turnout in SU elections is very low and the elected members are often quite atypical.

"I would beg to differ." Me too!!

"I'm not saying reason with radicals such as Holocaust deniers or radical Islamists" oh really? And the huge repeated racism in DM (among others is ok though?)

"I am pleased that so few people were buying it when it was stocked." Absolutely

I heard a quote on the radio earlier (maybe from Virgin Trains?) saying that the Daily Mail doesn't reflect British values. Sadly, I disagree, as much as we may wish it didn't reflect British values, I think that in fact it really does reflect (and shape) the views of a significant percentage of the public.

I don't think "banned" means what you think it means...

Not really, they are a private company who have stopped selling something which doesn’t benefit their business. Would people be outraged if Tesco stopped selling New Scientist? Probably not.

If the government made an all out ban on the Daily Mail then that would be a different matter.

@TulipsInAJug you're completely misunderstanding free speech. Having trigger warnings and safe spaces doesn't ban or shut down debate. It just gives people the right to choose whether they want to engage with a particular subject or idea at a particular time.

Trigger warnings have existed for a long time before the name became trendy and I doubt you had problems with them then. When a news reader says 'some viewers may find the following images distressing' before showing the aftermath of a catastrophe do you consider it an attack on free speech? When a DVD of a violent or pornographic film has a label saying 'adults only - not suitable for children' do you think free speech is imperilled? When you're scrolling Facebook and you see a video of a dog being skinned alive that one of your friends has shared in disgust, do you think 'wow, I wish that had been blurred out so I could choose whether or not I wanted to see it'? All of these are examples of trigger warnings!

Trigger warnings don't prevent any idea from being spread or discussed. They simply allow individual people to choose whether they're comfortable having that particular discussion themselves. No person is obligated to have any debate they aren't interested in, and it's not an attack on free speech to allow them to choose not to engage.

Safe spaces are also nothing to do with free speech. Do you think men should be allowed to stay in women's shelters? Do you think white people should be allowed to join the NAACP? Or do you accept the argument that there are certain times when it's right and proper to reserve spaces for certain types of people for their safety and wellbeing?

Free speech doesn't mean every person and idea and publication has to be given a platform at all times. Nobody is or should be forced to engage with an idea if they don't want to. People have the freedom to decide when and where and how they will engage with others.

Of course this is not an infringement upon free speech.

Virgin presumably does not carry every publication under the sun, they select them based on their customer preference and which muckety-muck publishers they're trying to please. The Daily Mail will carry on without Virgin's support.

Censorious by Virgin, but not surprising in an era where people (and organisations) can’t bear to hear or read anything which falls outside the carefully self or algorithm-curated worldview of their own filter bubble. Heaven forbid they ever be challenged or have to read an alternative view.

Its not been banned

Its supply and demand

(Oooh rhyme)

My local shop has about 5 copies of most sunday newspapers...it doesnt sell every paper but the sunday mail is stacked throughout the shop and regularly runs out

So if they stopped selling the times on a sunday i woukd assume that its because hardly anyone buys it from that shop

Ha. It really does diminish the actual problems of authoritarianism in the world when issues like this are talked about as being against 'free speech'.

I wonder if the OP has ever tried to buy The Sun in Liverpool....

Try reading (and fully comprehending) the thread/reports next time, julie.

@juliesaway what a ridiculous argument. I already know that I don't like racism, sexism and homophobia. I don't need to read the disgusting views expressed in the Daily Mail just to be sure.

I don't even get the argument when it comes to universities- do they have to invite every single member of the population in to speak in order to avoid accusations of clamping down on free speech? What about Islamist jihadi preachers? Or the bloke ranting about the Kingdom is Coming down the park? Does he have to be given a platform? When is it ok to say "X is a nutcase and has nothing to add to our debate"?

As for newspapers, they are merchandise. Private companies can sell them or not sell them as suits them- and part of that will be whether they fit in with their image. And the same goes for public institutions. It is not a suppression of speech if cathedral gift shops do not feature Playboy.

Incidentally, my university staff room does not stock the Daily Mail. But then it doesn't stock the Daily Worker either. Basically, it only does the old-fashioned daily "broadsheets"- the Times, the Telegraph, the Guardian and the Independent (and the local paper, which is pretty right-wing). This is not to do with the suppression of free speech, but merely with an estimate of the kind of level of sophistication that their employees are likely to require in a newspaper.

Our Student Union shop does sell the Mail and the Express, but it's not something we can force them to do (or not to do) as a university: that is for the Union to decide. Given the number of foreign and immigrant students we cater for, I do think it's unfortunate that they should have to run the gauntlet of xenophobic headlines every time they enter the shop, but there is absolutely nothing I could do about that.

Strange that people are up in arms about virgin rails choice to sell which newspapers they want

Each newsagent chooses what they sell, same as each supermarket- why can’t virgin rail?

I frequently travel between London and Glasgow on VT.

Last year, they stopped stocking Irn Bru amongst their range of soft drinks. I love Irn Bru. This is clearly a ban aimed at Scots for whom it is another 'national drink' and at London consumers who enjoy it. This is clearly xenophobic targeting because Richard Branson couldn't buy Scotrail.

Sounds ridiculous right?

FWIW the Sainsbury's at Euston sells it. I am yet to be ejected from the train for drinking it.

They're not banning it, just not selling it. As long as they don't rip it out of customers' hands, it's fine and whoever wants to spend their money on the Nazi rag is welcome.

🙄

Oh do fuck off with the free speech bollocks. Yes people can say what they want in a free country, but here's the thing; we don't have to listen to it, and if someone/something is being an arsehole, we can show them the door.

Virgin banning the daily mail on their trains is showing a bigoted shitrag the door. Fuck the daily mail. It's only fit for lining cat litter trays.

only on mn are left wing papers all the rage, but mention the DM or DExpress (and possible the Sun) and all hell breaks loose .

what about the Eve Standard with thet C*** Osborne at its helm and his l;eft wing whinging?

Have virgin trains 'banned' the evening standard then?

@QQQ Are you having a laugh? The Evening Standard is a Tory rag (I wouldn't buy it if they were giving it away . . . ) and George Osborne hasn't been left-wing since he was off the tit.

Are you sure about this?

I actually find this quite hilarious. Choosing not to stock something is not repressing anyone's freedom of speech, it's essentially just that the Daily Mail is a vile hate filled newspaper and Virgin are choosing not to sell it - partly because it goes against their values but also because their passengers don't want to buy it anyway - that is all.

What I find so amusing is how outraged the Daily Mail are, branding it 'disgraceful', and then Nigel Farage has waded in and said something like it's 'Very Worrying'. Get a grip!!!! You cannot force an outlet to sell something, that would be like the makers of Pot Noodle marching into Waitrose and braying about it being disgraceful that they don't stock their product, but it's the choice of the retail outlet. In this instance the DM can still be bought at other outlets, it is still easy to get hold of (if you'd even want to).

What is genuinely disgraceful is that the DM are allowed to print pictures of dead children but because they blur out the faces that's okay then. . As far as getting on their moral high horse gos they are a total joke.

Choosing to not to provide it is an important freedom in itself and does not prevent free speech.
The Daily Mail is free to publish and is available at many retail outlets.

Oh for goodness sake. Virgin are well within their rights to not sell the DM if they so wish and it's got nothing to do with 'free speech' and everything to do with business.

You can buy the dm from practically anywhere else if you so wish. I don't understand the fuss.

Dig a bit deeper and it looks like Virgin are dressing up a commercial decision for some free publicity. Fair play to them.