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Original poster

Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

999 replies

BornInSydneyy · 08/01/2018 21:12

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
FaceOddity · 08/01/2018 22:46

What I'm getting at is if I put my son in the same top I would be mortified someone viewed it as racist. I'd like to think one day we can leave all that behind as humanity progresses so that putting a black kid in a monkey top or, god forbid, a child carrying his favourite monkey toy around with him is no longer taboo. I live in hope.

TheBananaStand2 · 08/01/2018 22:46

Also, to people calling OP etc racist, there’s a difference between saying something racist, and saying something IS racist. Saying something IS racist is not inventing racism!

EUnamechange · 08/01/2018 22:47

80sQueen

At least some of us have imaginations. I've been lucky to hear almost no racism, ever. I know it exists, and I hate it, but having had very little personal experience (and knowing nothing about football), I'm not always aware of specific examples and histories that cause sensitivity. But it's not my right to make that call, and I will defer to people in the affected group.

Someone earlier asked how it was even possible that people could be unaware of the unpleasant connotations. That's my white privilege. I grew up in a 99.9% white rural area. Now my work is with people all over the world, such a mixture of races, colours, religions, nationalities and entirely cosmopolitan people that we're all so different that we look for commonality rather than difference. 90% of the people I work with are neither white nor British.

However, with a bit of imagination I can put myself in the shoes of someone who has experienced racism, and I respect that if they say it's racist, then it is.

I just don't understand how people can't extrapolate from, say, sexism, to racism.

ArcheryAnnie · 08/01/2018 22:48

there’s a difference between saying something racist, and saying something IS racist. Saying something IS racist is not inventing racism!

Yes, this! ^

FaceOddity · 08/01/2018 22:48

And yes I do get that racism is well and truly alive! I just think at some point in the future it should definitely not be. Like now.

80sQueen · 08/01/2018 22:49

In terms of White children yes you may have heard it that way, but you will never find a Black person comfortable with their child or themselves being referred to as an animal. Wasn't so long ago that racist Europeans where referring to Africans as living in jungles, trees. Not so long ago we were considered to be cattle. Aboriginal people were classed in the same category as flora and fauna, so Excuse is for having an issue with this. Sick of having to explain this shit to people who deliberately keep themselves ignorant to racism, act like it doesn't exist and have the nerve to ask Black to explain the same racism that they are a victim of because apparently this is so confusing to White people to understand

Rosewatersoap · 08/01/2018 22:51

Sick of having to explain this shit to people who deliberately keep themselves ignorant to racism, act like it doesn't exist

I agree. I am white and am cringing at some of the comments on this thread. So wilfully naive and ignorant and totally blind to their white privileges. Blush Blush Blush

MysweetAudrina · 08/01/2018 22:52

If a parent feels the wording is offensive then they don't have to buy it.
It's a jumper with a slogan. I wouldn't buy my dd clothes with 'sexy' or "princess" stamped across the arse of them and so if a black person feels it would be offensive for their child to wear it then they can choose not to buy it

I think it was a very clever piece of advertising because It just goes to show that what is seen as a common term of endearment to one race is seen and used as a racial slur to another. Do black people not use the term little monkey in relation to their children? A fb friend had a post up that she had 3 little monkeys at home. She and her boys are black.

I guess like most things, its not the words, but the intent behind them. If it's ok to call a white child a cheeky monkey then it should be ok to do the same to a black child unless of course you think there is more of a similarity between a black child and an actual monkey then you might pause as you might be afraid of offending which feels even more inherently racist.

IMightMentionGriddlebone · 08/01/2018 22:55

This argument that seeing an issue makes you racist? I don't really get that.

Let's explore this idea with examples. So, let's imagine a hypothetical sit-com sketch of yore.

[scene: a staff break room, with a window looking out into a mature garden. The audience can see a birdfeeder with two birds hanging from it. A well-endowed woman is sitting. A young man walks into the room]

Young Man: Oh I say! What a magnificent pair of tits!

Woman: What a cheek!

Shite sketch, yeah? But I think we all get what the joke was, don't we? Does getting it make us sexist then?

Or just culturally aware? Personally, I think it's the latter.

C8H10N4O2 · 08/01/2018 22:55

Sorry, but I think that there is an element of bandwagoning in that, black influencers or not

Oh fantastic. "it isn't racist because there are not lots of black people complaining"

"yes there is, look at Twitter"

"Oh those are just bandwagonning, they don't count"

Head|Wall

80sQueen · 08/01/2018 22:55

Stop telling Black people racism doesn't exist that would be a start. Stop telling Black expecting Black to explain to you in minute detail how something is racist because you claim you have lived in a bubble and don't know what it means. Given there are thousands of books, films, music etc. on the subject. Or we can play a game of other things "don't exist" that have primarily European people. Majority of people here are aware of racism, but either ignore it or are complicit because it doesn't harm them directly. Then when it is pointed out have the nerve to minimise people of colours experiences. There has been a huge uproar about this advert internationally and OP has a nerve to ask if it's racist. Because all those thousands of Black people are doing what exactly? Hmm

FaceOddity · 08/01/2018 22:56

I call my kids monkeys a lot. But I know I don't have a racist bone in my body. We're all mixed race.

If someone called me a monkey that would be offensive. It depends on the intent. God I wish we as a species could get past this.

HolyShmoly · 08/01/2018 22:58

It was never a racist term.

Seriously? Despite the actual links on here about cases of monkey noises being used in football as racist attacks? Do you want links to the Punch images to show how historical 'monkey' is as a racist term?

I'm white but, jesus christ, I have a bit of awareness.

80sQueen · 08/01/2018 22:58

Not so long ago those "little monkeys" were class as non human and therefore justified to be placed in slavery. Anyone calls my child a monkey they would getting a direct slap, and I can say that on behalf of the Black people I know. Our children are not animals, we are not animals.

PonderWoman · 08/01/2018 22:59

It amazes me how some white women can spot sexism a mile off, will take a stand against sexism, but cannot or deliberately will not see racism. They minimise it, lecturing black people that whites know better and telling black people what should or should not be classed as racism. I wonder if those women have ever bothered reading about white colonial past and the impact it still has today.

stitchglitched · 08/01/2018 22:59

Yes it's racist. Anyone with a modicum of social awareness and a willingness to listen to people's lived experiences of racism would understand why, but as usual posters are tripping over themselves to minimise racism and pretend people are just 'looking for offence.' Some of the posts on this thread are embarrassing in their ignorance.

80sQueen · 08/01/2018 23:00

Faceodditty I pity your kids then as your willingly doing something to your kids without bothering to look at the history of what your doing. Your kids being mixed raced does not remove them from experiencing racism, guess what no matter how light skinned they are society will still see them as Black and they will experience racism, acting like it doesn't exist wing help you if them, but good luck with that.!

Avocadoicecream · 08/01/2018 23:01

Reading posts here I do think almost all posts have the same goal, to reduce racism. I don’t think anyone is racist for calling attention to it, not the OP either, and I do think it’s healthy to have a discussion about whether this was the right thing to do, to pull the ad. I don’t think there was subliminal racism from H&M either.

I do know plenty of black kids, my sister included, that have been called a cheeky monkey. There are animal characters on children’s TV and animal clothes. I guess it’s too soon for the ad, but I hope we move to a place where that is more ok in the media, as it’s ok in the home.

Julie8008 · 08/01/2018 23:03

No different than a white child wearing a jumper saying "the most precious snowflake of mumsnet".

SockUnicorn · 08/01/2018 23:03

@BornInSydneyy as a white person I dont think it is. I call both my children "Monkey" regularly. To be honest I wouldnt have put that together and would have just seen a cute child in a monkey jumper (i dont really look deeply for meanings in things). However its not my opinion that matters regarding this and a quick google shows this issue has already been picked up by various websites who arent happy about it.

Ketzele · 08/01/2018 23:04

I'm staggered at the ineptitude of the H&M marketing team here - I'm sure this wasn't deliberate but FGS they are paid to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen. Completely inappropriate and offensive image.

user1469751309 · 08/01/2018 23:05

I have two mixed race DC's and in all fairness would have no issue with them wearing the jumper at all but think it was a massive cringeworthy error of judgement to advertise it the way it was.

80sQueen · 08/01/2018 23:05

Ponderwoman beautiful comment. White Women will lecture to, talk down to and minimise Black women's experiences at every turn but expect support from me and my kind when fighting against women's inequality. And yet somehow manage not to see or hear racism of any kind. You can talk about racism on mumsnet and it will be dismissed as being over sensitive, over reacting etc. However if we where discussing rape, sexual harassment there would not be the same kind of reaction. I understand that there are people who may have genuinely not experienced racism directly but you have definitely seen and heard it but because the person guilty of this looks like you, you pretend it doesn't exist

buttercup54321 · 08/01/2018 23:06

I totally agree with motherfiver.