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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

999 replies

BornInSydneyy · 08/01/2018 21:12

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

OP posts:
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10
spiritofadventure · 09/01/2018 18:01

Ghanagirl what exactly have you taken offence to?

I have read the full thread and no one has said they agree with racism or that black children are monkeys.

quencher · 09/01/2018 18:02

Surely it's only racism if it's meant to be racist . Otherwise it doesn't even make any sense .how do you know it wasn't meant to be? The people seemed comfortable or oblivious enough in a world where monkey chants is common place.

It has become a habit of late for advertising to use racism. It had died down a bit but now they seem to be in full force as marketing tool. It's working and at Black people.

Once this wave dies down I wonder who will be the next target for while before it comes back again?

quencher · 09/01/2018 18:13

Well if heads will roll as a consequence of this advert and the advert has already been pulled (poor kid then surely all the people who claimed it to be racist should be happy with that result? Pulling it is not the point. Making it in the first place is the problem. Get it Hmm
Whether it stays or goes does make a difference. Nothing ever disappears of the face of the Internet. They have made their point. It's us scrambling over crumbs, being shocked at something that is common place. Wishing we could have some brain bleach to not see it. The damage is done, pointless apology. I hope their is hell they can all rot in. As for the little boys parents, they should be ashamed of themselves. But hey, somebody's got to eat

Ghanagirl · 09/01/2018 18:23

spiritofadventure
Some posters have implied that POC making a fuss and the we the minority’s have issues.
Other posters have made ill judged comments complaining about being white in a predominantly white country.
Plus ignoring the fact that several posters myself included have been called “ugly monkeys” or monkeys apes etc by racists!
That’s why I’m offended.
You’re not offended because it doesn’t matter to you or your children
Or Mumsnet 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Well done on not being black

MistressDeeCee · 09/01/2018 18:26

Is this where the creeps not brave enough to express racism in real life hide?

Thankfully you are balanced out by sensible posters but really, MN is on it's way to gaining notoriety for racist threads. I was taken aback today hearing a young woman speaking about it and she isn't even on MN.

When you pretend to not know the racism of black boys being called monkeys, you sound uneducated.

Saying oh it's not racist when told it is so by black people who've been called monkey and other derogatory terms, then you're displaying your own racism. Quite proudly too, as if it's a badge of honour to deny and dismiss peoples' experiences

I bet enough of you racist hypocrites are at the school gate chatting with black mothers/teachers.

I do like that on Twitter regarding this particular issue, racists are being dealt with in no uncertain terms and I see that on there, H&M have hastily taken down the ad. In the face of numerous young black people saying they're buying nothing from H&M ever again.

DD and friends also saying no more H&M. Good.

mynameisnotmichaelcaine · 09/01/2018 18:30

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06WWPX2YF/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforum-21 I read this recently, and it gave me a much better understanding of some of the issues that have come up here.

ToffeeUp · 09/01/2018 18:43

I hope the posters who say they don't see the issue have second thoughts after reading Ghanagirl's post at 18:23

PeppermintPasty · 09/01/2018 18:44

I'm not a poc and I'm offended on your behalf. Yes, you didn't ask me to be but I'm side by side with everybody who want to fight the racists. Actually, offended isn't the right word. These people at h and m are dicks, and now imo plenty of people on here are being deliberately goady about not seeing the racism, or any damn bloody racism.

Do you remember that film on fb a little while ago about American poc speaking about what they tell their children in light of all the killings of black people by police? It was fucking heartbreaking. Telling them how to stay safe, how to be careful when dealing with police and other white people in authority. Little tiny children right up to young adults! Seriously, white people have NO idea. All we can do is unite and give no platform to this crap.

Ffs, I'm white and I'm still shocked from one incident, one incident, that happened in about 1988 when I went to a Sheffield United football match where the monkey chants were deafening and bananas were thrown on the pitch!! Imagine having to go through stuff like this all the bloody time! Actually, more likely to be low-level, insidious racism everyday, rather than that, but you get my point. I remember this shit vividly from 30 bloody years ago!

PeppermintPasty · 09/01/2018 18:45

Sorry for the minor rant.

dontbesillyhenry · 09/01/2018 18:46

Fucking hell. 'Whitesplaining' and white privilege? Seriously you aren't helping your cause by using this
Divisive terminology. Imagine if people on this thread accused black people of 'blacksplaining' why they find this offensive?

Glintysea · 09/01/2018 18:50

Ghanagirl I just totally don’t understand how anyone can see the advert as not being unacceptable. I’m middle aged and from a Jewish Orthodox family and I totally get that while the sweatshirt wasn’t designed with racist intent, it is shockingly simple to see that it’s offensive. I swear even though you and other POC have come forward to say you have personal experience of being subject to abuse using the words on this sweatshirt, it seems like banging your head against a brick flipping wall to try get this across. Arghhhh

BakedBeans47 · 09/01/2018 18:51

I think some people look for things to get offended about

I know, right?

I mean centuries of abuse and oppression and ongoing (white) idiots telling them they’ve got nothing to be offended about. Nothing really, innit?

Honestly some of the ignorance and stupidity on this thread are shocking. If some people aren’t completely embarrassed by the shite they’ve spouted on this thread, they really need to take a long hard look at themselves.

ghanagirl so sorry for your experiences x

Ghanagirl · 09/01/2018 18:57

MistressDeeCee PeppermintPasty
ToffeeUp
Thanks for support I find it painful that even though I’ve given examples of recent racist abuse calling myself and my daughter a monkey posters still choose to ignore the pain of people particularly Women and children of colour face routinely unfortunately middle class women with voices choose to ignore also.
Mumsnet HQ intervene or post about child abuse rightly so but Michelle Obama compared to an Ape that’s fine.
Middle class Black Health Visitor who fights for children’s rights called a Monkey along with her children that’s cool as long as it doesn’t effect Mumsnets core middleclass white posters then who gives a S**t

Badeyes77 · 09/01/2018 18:57

I'm white (which I think is relevant) and tbh if I saw the advert with a white and black child wearing that top, I probably wouldn't give it a second thought. I call my dd a monkey, I just call children monkeys sometimes, meaning like cheeky/naughty.

But due to the historic (and sadly, still present) usage of monkey as an insult to black people, I imagine that some black people who've experienced being called a monkey in this negative way will make a link immediately and be upset by it. I don't think I'd say the advert itself is racist as it obviously using monkey in the way I would when calling my dd a little monkey etc, but maybe thoughtless/ socially ignorant or something like that? And really, given that their job is to advertise they should be more aware of their audience. I mean I am assuming here that most people involved in the making of this advert were not black, but I suppose there could have been black people involved who were not bothered by it or scared of speaking out if they were.

I think my overall feeling is that this is something that should not even raise eyebrows in an ideal world, but we can't ignore the fact that the word monkey has been, and is, used in a racist way...in an ideal world this wouldn't be the case and we'd have no problem but we can't ignore reality.

This has made me think though, would it be wrong of me to call a black child a cheeky monkey or something? I'd never mean it in a racist way, but perhaps I might unintentionally upset or offend. But I also don't like the idea that I'd be treating a black child differently to a white child by going out of my way to not call them something, if you see what I mean.

Gilead · 09/01/2018 18:58

Fucking hell. 'Whitesplaining' and white privilege? Seriously you aren't helping your cause by using this Divisive terminology
Are you offended by it? If so, why? That's exactly what it is.

Glintysea · 09/01/2018 18:58

Bakedbeabeans Exactly. Honestly what’s a bit of oppression and slavery between friends eh? And like truly when anyone says the Holocaust didn’t exist and daubs swastikas over the graves in our Jewish ceremony, I know it’s just a bit of high jinks and I just laugh it off. Really these minority groups are such drama llamas.

Glintysea · 09/01/2018 18:59

Cemetery!

Ghanagirl · 09/01/2018 18:59

Yet Mumsnet HQ haven’t taken a stand.
Whilst they get upset when Matthew Wright calls them out...

Gilead · 09/01/2018 19:01

But I also don't like the idea that I'd be treating a black child differently to a white child by going out of my way to not call them something, if you see what I mean.
Why would you call them anything other than their name. If you want to use a term of endearment, just find one that's suitable across the board rather than one that's offensive to a section of society.

Glintysea · 09/01/2018 19:01

Yes it’s interesting that no stand on this by HQ Ghanagirl

Inthenightmoon · 09/01/2018 19:02

Unless you have been living under a rock them you know it was very unwise to put a black child in that top.
What's next disabled jokes?

Inthenightmoon · 09/01/2018 19:02

Or autistic jokes?

Newtothismumthing1 · 09/01/2018 19:02

yes it’s racist. Vile H&M and cannot believe these things still go on, did no one learn the lesson of United colours of Benetton.

Glintysea · 09/01/2018 19:03

I wouldn’t call any child a monkey. If a kid is being cheeky it’s perfectlh possible to call them cheeky without having to add monkey. And if you just want to call them something cute then there’s plenty of non offensive words and phrases to pick from.

DivisionBelle · 09/01/2018 19:04

“Surely it's only racism if it's meant to be racist .”

The architects of apartheid and it’s enforcers and supporters claimed apartheid was not racist.

So obviously it wasn’t.

What a relief.

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