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Original poster

Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

999 replies

BornInSydneyy · 08/01/2018 21:12

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

OP posts:
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10
downthestrada · 09/01/2018 14:13

H&M refused to let my son model monkey tshirts because he is black' .... to me, that's worse.

And to those saying that if the boy in the advert didn't have a complex about his skin before, he probably will now.

I know you're saying that it's racist to stop a child from modelling a particular hoodie due to the colour of his skin. But, right at this moment, calling black children a "monkey" is used as a racist insult. Today. Across the world. I guess the alternative would be to leave the advert as it is, and nobody complains, but I guarantee that there will be racists sniggering and feeling justified seeing that advert.

I don't know how to properly explain my thoughts, but the racist connotations in this advert would be there anyway. Whether it was called out or not, because the insult is current. So, perhaps it's better to bring these things to light.

Just look at this thread, loads of people saying that "monkey" is a "term of endearment, nothing more. Never heard of it being used in a racist way. What are you talking about?"

I suppose it's more that people would rather not hear about it, and don't really care or have empathy. Does this make them racist if they are not willing to take on board the thoughts and feelings of others, even with evidence? Or simply uncaring and lacking in empathy? I don't know.

HermioneAndMsJones · 09/01/2018 14:31

down I think that people say that cheeky monkey is an expression that is one of endearment with no racist connotation.
And tbf it is an expression very commonly used towards children regardless of their race.
A monkey is a different expression altogether.

And of course, there is also the CONTEXT in which said expression is used as well as the expression itself.

I have an issue with saying that one expression is ok to use for a child that is x colour but not for the other because it has y colour.
For me, this is exactly what racism is about. Making differences between people and not treat8ng them the same.

So the question, rather than ‘should a black child be used for that jumper’, theatre question should be ‘should we use the expression ‘cheeky monkey’?
Either it has racist connotations and none should be using it. If it’s really a term of endearment and then everyone can use it in any child.
I personally cant say either way as English is not my first language so I’m likely to miss something there.

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2018 14:34

“I am flabbergasted that people are not aware that monkey/banana/jungle jibes are current, not historical.”

Me too. But many things flabbergast me. Gollywogs- I never realized they were anything to do with black people! Paki-just the same as Aussie, isn’t it? Men-they just aren’t any good at cooking and cleaning, are they? To name but 3 statements that have flabbered my gast recently.

ToffeeUp · 09/01/2018 14:34

They are already losing business
www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/42617379/the-weeknd-wont-work-with-hm-after-racist-advert

ReelingLush18 · 09/01/2018 14:37

Feels more racist to make a thing of it tbh Totally agree.

IrritatedUser1960 · 09/01/2018 14:38

It is totally rascist. I asked my sister who is mixed race what she thought, she was appalled.

Iggi999 · 09/01/2018 14:41

I had a dream that a relative produced a gollywog for my dc last night and I was trying to to hide it under a table. I need to stop the late-night mumsnetting obviously.

Gilead · 09/01/2018 14:42

Feels more racist to make a thing of it tbh Totally agree.
Whilst you're agreeing, those of us who are suffering constant racial jibes in our daily lives are getting a bit hacked off with it. Perhaps you could help us out here...

Frequency · 09/01/2018 14:43

I hope the little boy at the center of this has been shielded from all the furore. Poor kid.

The ad was ill thought out and should never have been published. It's a massive failure on HandM's part but I don't believe it was intentionally racist and unless the public know the boy was upset by being asked to wear the sweater, all these photoshopped images of him wearing "Coolest King in the World" etc slogans need to stop. If he didn't have a complex before, he certainly will now.

downthestrada · 09/01/2018 14:50

Hermione yes I agree that "cheeky monkey" or "little monkey" is the term of endearment, but that's not what was used on the H&M hoodie. Cheers for responding to my post though.

I have an issue with saying that one expression is ok to use for a child that is x colour but not for the other because it has y colour. For me, this is exactly what racism is about. Making differences between people and not treat8ng them the same.

On the one hand, I want to say that it's nice to treat people the same. But, until calling black/mixed kids monkey is no longer used in a racist manner, it's really difficult to say that this advert is ok. I certainly couldn't put my child in this hoodie, because I know it would cause issues at school.

So the question, rather than ‘should a black child be used for that jumper’, theatre question should be ‘should we use the expression ‘cheeky monkey’? I think we can still use the term "cheeky monkey" and usually it's obvious when it's being used maliciously. But this particular advert didn't use the term "cheeky monkey" and the other white child was in a "expert explorer" top which has colonial connotations - just a badly thought out advert.

For context, my mum used to call me a "cheeky monkey" and I think that's fine. We are all mixed race in my immediate family. But, because she didn't educate me that I could be called "monkey" maliciously. I had some bad and confusing incidents at school when this happened. If I wore that hoodie, I'm sure I would have drawn even more negative attention.

Generally, I think the term "cheeky monkey" is fine and can be used with black children too. But having the "label" monkey on a top is still a struggle for black children whilst they are called monkey as an insult.

Lndnmummy · 09/01/2018 15:06

It gets on my nerves when people refuse to see the problem! Cheeky monkey to a white kid is not the same as referencing a black Child as a monkey in the jungle. Another example. In Swden where I am from there is an annual celebration around Christmas to celebrate light. Lots of characters involved. Santa’s/angels and ginger bread men. Swedish kids have been ginger bread men for more than 100 years. When ds who is 4 wanted to be Santa and the choir teacher told him “he should be a ginger bread man because he looks like one” I hit the fucking roof!! and no I wouldn’t have if my kid was white.

Stop pretending that you can compare like for like. A white person doesn’t not get to decide over a POC what is offensive and what is not.

Rosewatersoap · 09/01/2018 15:10

"the other white child was in a "expert explorer" top which has colonial connotations"
Oh Gosh, you are right I had not made that connection but so true.

Bloody BBC Teacup Travels comes to mind. That was such an embarrassing British production. Again, cringe Blush

Frequency · 09/01/2018 15:12

I don't think they intentionally meant the slogan to reference black children. That would've taken an awful lot of forethought, right from designing it, to intentionally hiring a black model, a process involving lots of different people. No company would be so stupid.

The slogan itself was meant to be a play on the 'little monkey/cheeky monkey' affectionate term. It's lack of thought when it came to advertising it where've they've made a massive error.

Rebeccaslicker · 09/01/2018 15:13

I don't think it was remotely intentional.

I do think it was appallingly ignorant.

Someone's head should roll for it!

Rosewatersoap · 09/01/2018 15:20

Whilst we are at it, can i leo say that H&M's girl / boy clothes are incredibly sexist. Boys' garments are embellished with mottos conveying strength, power, etc. whilst their girls clothes (and we do shop with them for the cotton rich clothes) are overly princessy, sparkly often impractical in the 1-10 age rage and overly 'sexy' for lack of a better word in the 10+ age range. It's really shit.

Rosewatersoap · 09/01/2018 15:29

Check out the faux leather skirt for young toddlers Confused

And another monkey sweater this time with a dippy sparkly connotations as that's what girls are like and aspire to whilst for boys it's about being survivalists or cool, right?

Rosewatersoap · 09/01/2018 15:29

www2.hm.com/en_gb/productpage.0549390003.html

MotherofaSurvivor · 09/01/2018 15:35

My point, is that by making a thread about this, whipping this up into a frenzy and bringing it to everyone's attention with a great big "LOOK EVERYBODY! Isn't this racist" sign all over it, has actually had the effect of offending more people of colour (politically correct term? Hope so!) than the image would have done to begin with.... Surely?

BertrandRussell · 09/01/2018 15:40

“My point, is that by making a thread about this, whipping this up into a frenzy“

Can you define “frenzy” please.

kateandme · 09/01/2018 15:42

no. the designers saw a sweet kid and let him model.they didn't see colour or race they saw a great looking child model prfect for the outfit.
to thos who think its racist, that in itself in this case to me is racist or singling someone out making him not jsut another boy.because you are making something of something perfectly normal or something that should be perfectly normal.a lovely saying,a lovely top and your adding this connotation to it.
where as they shop in question having made any such judgements.they just think the child looks fab in a cute top with a very common turn of phrase.
those that snigger at this or put a mocking behind it will be the ones that are racist.we shoudnt even be registering it .

FaceOddity · 09/01/2018 15:44

Of course people use Monkey in an inflammatory way, they have done for decades. I can't believe people would dispute that! Fact is some people (black and/or white) view the advert as racist and some people (black and/or white) don't. I personally don't, and agree the hype has brought more attention to the advert that probably would have passed a lot of people by. I feel really sorry for that poor child. There will be stigma attached to that advert for years to come.

Mumsnet: the only place where you have to agree with everybody else's opinion or you're 'wrong'. Ffs! Agree to disagree people!!

Rosewatersoap · 09/01/2018 15:45

"whipping this up into a frenzy"

Can't see any frenzy as such but it's the nature of social media to amplify anything, good and bad. Hopefully some people who were not wilfully ignorant have learned something interesting. Those who insist that there is nothing to see will just have to agree to disagree. Plenty of business, media and marketing students will have an interesting case study and hopefully mistakes like this will occur less frequently. I hope the little boy won't have any negative experiences due to the ad. Imagine jealous and or racist school mates seeing the ad on the H&M website and teasing the boy for being a monkey. The art director really should have known better. Idiot.

FaceOddity · 09/01/2018 15:45

Bertrand this thread feels like a frenzy owing to the number of posts and pages and only one side of the argument being acknowledged: that the ad is racist.

It's Brexit all over in its great divide.

downthestrada · 09/01/2018 15:49

My point, is that by making a thread about this, whipping this up into a frenzy and bringing it to everyone's attention with a great big "LOOK EVERYBODY! Isn't this racist" sign all over it, has actually had the effect of offending more people of colour

All these threads on mumsnet, but the one that discusses racism is considered a "frenzy". Should people not discuss things anymore? Are people not allowed to say that they find certain things racist? BBC News brings up lots of issues and makes things public, but I wouldn't describe their website or app as a "frenzy".

I quite like these threads and seeing what everyone's thoughts are.