Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

[BornInSydneyy]

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

You usually say "little" or "cheeky" monkey though wouldn't you?

Not just "monkey" & certainly no reference to a jungle!

I suppose it would be racist to take a black family to the zoo where any monkeys are kept. Would it also be racist to take a white family to the zoo where snow leopards are kept? Stupid comment. Not long ago so may black peoples where kept in human zoos in London, paris and Germany for people to pay money to ogle at.

Is there a good reason why we can't just decide "OK then, we won't call children monkies any more"? I don't think I ever have, simply because it's not part of my family vocabulary, and I haven't felt starved of descriptive or affectionate words for children.........

"I faced - and still do face - racism as a child. I was regularly called a coconut (because I'm brown on the outside but white on the inside). Does this mean I should boycott supermarkets that sell them?"

Of course not. There is nothing intrinsically racist about a monkey or a coconut. They are what they are.

However, If H&M produced a hoodie with a picture of a coconut on it, and the lettering 'Coconut', and modelled it on a mixed-race young person the context would immediately link to the insult 'coconut'.

No one needs to boycott Bounty Bars. It is not racist to buy your child (of any ethnicity) a toy monkey or a copy of Curious George.

However, just as you were called coconut (and it is still a current insult) young people are still subject to monkey noises (see BertrandRussell's post below) , Michelle Obama was called an ape, and it is still possible to hear the scum of the earth use phrases like jungle bunny. So THAT T shirt on THAT child has a very unfortunate (unpleasant) resonance.

IMightMentionGriddlebone Please do so. Then re-join the conversation.

I'm sorry but I still haven't seen anything to change my view. I am still not going to conflate "racist" with "offensive because it brings to mind racist things".

So you realise context makes a difference?

It can, yes.

So, you understand the concept of unintentional context, too. Although in this case, I would never ask whether it was unintentional, because I'm not that naive.

Neither would I, as it is so overwhelmingly unlikely that the top did not have these "sex humour" intentions in mind.

Just making the point that even without that intention, it is overwhemingly reasonable to take it as meaning this "sex humour".

Not sure what the bird top being innapropriate for the workpace due to its intended sex humour tells us about the monkey top being racist though.

No it wouldn't even occur to me that there is a problem with this.

People make it a huge issue are highlighting an issue that didn't exist before they started banging on about it. It's a shame really, people always spoiling for a fight.

Everyone in my family calls small cute cheeky children 'Tinker'. Very affectionately. 'Oooh, you little tinker'. I honestly never realised that it is offensive - I always associated it with Tinkerbell.

I won't be using it again. Having read posts on this thread.

Because now I know.

What issue didn't exist, Mary? Black people being offensively compared to monkeys?

Three boys in the same jumper being a non-issue. Obviously not racism, which clearly is an issue (but IMO not in this instance)

Mary-how do you feel about my post about refereeing?

inthenightmoon yes, I have been exposed to racism my whole life but it has made me far from ignorant.

What I find more offensive than a monkey slogan, are people who have never experienced racism, telling me what I should be offended by!

"People make it a huge issue are highlighting an issue that didn't exist before they started banging on about it."

It DID exist! What sheltered little backwater do you inhabit not to have heard racist insults based on monkey and jungle? Or what huge universal overview do you have that enables you to decree that this is no longer the case and therefore the slogan has no currency at all for black people?

Some of the comments on this thread are nothing short of disgusting.

What's depressing is that the posters who think people who experience racism everyday - and are seeing it loud and clear here - are 'pearl clutchers' and need to 'get over it and move on', or just don't think it exists, are potentially teaching these dreadful attitudes to their own children.

I don't give a monkey's (!) what you're not offended by, Spirit - I do care about people making up stupid reasons not to see why this advert was problematic, though.

What if the top was a hat, and the hat had a flower on it, and the hat was on a kitten? WOuld you all the saying that was a problem, would you, huh? I suppose black people shouldn't have cats, or flowers, or hats, huh? Huh? You're a racist for seeing racism, which non-racists never see because they're not racist!

Those 16 year olds learnt that behaviour from somewhere. Nobody is born racist.

Yes, they did. From other kids and/or adults doing it. They didn't learn it from people objecting to an advert.

If this advert wasn't questioned, and was allowed to stand, what do you think those 16 year olds and the adults would think if they saw it? Do you think they would say "aw cute"?

I think they would laugh themselves sick, and assume H&M did it deliberately. I think seeing this behaviour on the part of a company like H&M would entrench their beliefs that their own behaviour was socially acceptable and a bit of a laugh.

people who have never experienced racism, telling me what I should be offended by

Yes, having posters whitesplaining why no one should be offended this must be pretty galling.

Thank you for that very articulate and informative post Seek

Not sure what the bird top being innapropriate for the workpace due to its intended sex humour tells us about the monkey top being racist though.

It's an analogy.

To paraphrase your own words, the juxtaposition of a slogan t-shirt featuring words than can be innocent or a racist slur and a black/mixed race child as the model looks racist.

You might then ask "but what if that is just a coincidence, the creators never intended any such a connection?" In that case, given the number and location I would still say that the racism thing is a perfectly reasonable inference. So it is still an inappropriate advertising decision due to the fact that it is so reasonable to infer racist humour is intended.

@BertrandRussell
I think well done to your DS for a decision well made, racism should never be tolerated and I hope those kids learnt a lesson.

I don't think an affectionate term widely used for kids on a cute item of clothing is the same thing at all, overreacting and turning it into something it was obviously not meant to be is silly.

Let's give important issues (and,sadly, there are many) our full attention and not create issues where there aren't any.

*given the words and choice of model, I would still say the racism thing is a reasonable inference.

So well done to ds for not tolerating racist monkey noises on the pitch and well done to H&M for making advertisements that legitimise the stereotype that feeds the racism. Okaaaaay

People make it a huge issue are highlighting an issue that didn't exist before they started banging on about it. It's a shame really, people always spoiling for a fight.

Let's give important issues (and,sadly, there are many) our full attention and not create issues where there aren't any.

So the historical and current use of the term as a racist slur is not an important issue? Calling out racism, not an important issue.
Yet again, the experience of many is being dismissed.

spirit

I dont think anyone has said you should be offended

I may have missed that

People are saying that some people are offended

I bet those footballers are offended

My uncle was offended (he was only little when it first happened so probably more upset)

My mum was offended on his behalf

Lots of posters on here have said they find it offensive

So, as much as i may refer to my children being monkeys on a climbing frame (not happened for a long time as they getting so mature) or tell ds1 that he is good at group selfies because he has arms like a chimp..i will refrain from using it for anybody else...just in case

Just another example of people jumping on the bandwagon, same as the the gender thing going on at the minute where society is trying to bully all retailers in to gender neutral everything!
I understand the term being insulting but like others have said 'monkey' is an affectionate term for kids in England.
It's one of those age old damned if you do, damned if you don't because the opposite story to this could have been 'H&M refused to let my son model monkey tshirts because he is black' .... to me, that's worse.

What if the top was a hat, and the hat had a flower on it, and the hat was on a kitten? WOuld you all the saying that was a problem, would you, huh? I suppose black people shouldn't have cats, or flowers, or hats, huh? Huh? You're a racist for seeing racism, which non-racists never see because they're not racist!

Brilliant.

Encountered the weirdest person the other day going on and on about how his sons grew up with Pakistani neighbours and how they (the Pakistani neighbour boys) used to refer to themselves as 'Paki' allegedly

This guy went on and on about it and how at first he had been 'surprised' at hearing them call themselves 'P' but if they call themselves 'P' then what canyado.........

I had met this person for the first time . Just why he was so obsessed with repeating the 'P' word so many times and explaining how if a Pakistini uses this word then the term cannot possibly be racist.......

What a nutter.