Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

[BornInSydneyy]

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

Had H&M used a white child wearing the same hoodie, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

Yawn.

As said a million times on this thread, that is because 'Monkey in the Jungle' is not used as a racist insult against white people. No one is lobbing bananas at White footballers. I wonder why that is 🤔

I you really this ignorant Spirit? Are you not embarrassed?

“But I do also want my child to grow up not get offended by everything it may have racist meaning behind it“

He doesn’t have to be offended. But a state of denial is not a good or healthy place to be........

I'm going to ask again, because no-one has answered.

Is this t-shirt, featuring cute, lovable British garden birds, suitable for the work-place?

They're just birds, so what could possibly be wrong with it?

I know which category I fall into!!

Yes, we all do.

I won’t get over it and get on with my day because my 5yo nephew has been called a monkey by white children at his school. They have learnt that from somewhere, more than likely at home. Should he just “get over it” too?

I'm mixed race. My mum is black. She has experienced racism. I have experienced racism. It sucks. I don't particularly find this advert offensive but can undercard why some do.

But PLEASE white people, please keep telling me how I should 'think' and 'feel' about this advert. You are obviously experts in the matter.

No, we wouldn't, because no-one jeers 'go back to the jungle' at white kids, no-one makes monkey noises at white kids, and no-one calls them 'monkey' with anything other than affection.

There's the rub isn't it. It is not a racist slogan, it reminds some people of racism when applied to a black child.

Unless if the intent was to be racist, or the slogan itself was racist, is this racism?

Whether it showed lack of judgment for not realising that some people would react negatively, is another question.

Not racist at all

I think it was very unwise, given they didn’t have the white child in the same one and instead was in expert explorer one...

It’s a bit difficult though to get this right. I call my toddlers cheeky monkeys in an affectionate way and sometimes say this to good friends’ children (again in a very playful, not to tell them off!). But never to their black friends, as I’m worried about it being/seeming racist. Is it more racist because I intentionally exclude them or is it being sensitise to the potential connotations? I don’t know really.

I wouldn't have put the two + two together tbh, but I can see why it can be seen as racist and I do think H&M should have been more aware of that.

That 'tit' t shirt was obviously sexist tongue in cheek humour.

It wasn't designed for a guy to wear. The monkey top could be worn by a child of any race.

Can you imagine the kid?

Kid: "mum, why was the advert I modelled for pulled?"

Mum: "because of the colour of your skin sweetheart"

Poor kids gonna have a massive complex about racism now. Ffs!

And before people feel the need to explain racism too me, being mixed race, I fully understand!
You very obviously don't.

You realize you are telling a mixed race person they do not understand racism? This is as bad as others who are basically telling POC to stfu as they know better.

JAPAB

It is clear you think you are putting forth a new, balanced point of view, but all you are doing is revealing that you haven't read the thread.

Please do so. Then re-join the conversation.

Not racist at all
No, your user name isn't clever, either.

Why would I be embarrassed?

I faced - and still do face - racism as a child. I was regularly called a coconut (because I'm brown on the outside but white on the inside). Does this mean I should boycott supermarkets that sell them?

Young children don't see monkeys on hoodies as racist. They are taught that it is racist. Maybe if we stopped making such a huge issue out of something as ridiculous as this, these children would grow up to become a generation that doesn't make monkey noises at black footballers, because the association isn't there.

When does it end?

When does it end?
When we stop dismissing it, understand that ignoring it doesn't work and stand together to ensure it that it doesn't continue.

Bert,

He doesn’t have to be offended. But a state of denial is not a good or healthy place to be........

He doesn't know the connection, so there's no denial unless someone told him .

So when my ds was called a monkey by our lovely white neighbour, I should have had a go at her? I certainly knew it can be a racist term, and I have experience of racism myself, but I simply didn't connect it at all. She is almost like his gran, she is very fond of him.
Tbh, I am very confused. Just ignore me.

Is this t-shirt, featuring cute, lovable British garden birds, suitable for the work-place?

No because the number and location of the birds makes it clear that it is also making a reference to breasts.

You might trhen ask "but what if that is just a coincidence, the creators never intended any such a connection?" in that case, given the number and location I would still say that the breast thing is a perfectly reasonable inference. So it is still an innaproptiate top due to the fact that it is so reasonable to infer "sexual humour" from it.

Batshite, my dd has been called monkey all the way through school.
I'm not telling the person concerned that they don't understand racism, I'm trying to point out that marginalising it doesn't help.

That 'tit' t shirt was obviously sexist tongue in cheek humour.

Indeed it is. Although I kind of took it for granted you would see that, as you haven't taken an extreme position on the H&M shirt, and you've consistently understood the points other people are making about the shirt, whether you agreed or not!

Spirit

So if someone called you a coconut, then claimed they meant it as a term of endearment because they like coconuts and told you to 'get over it' that would be ok with you?

Ok, that's up to you and about what you're happy to put up with.

I'd still defend you though.

I’m not comfortable with the idea that only someone with a particular protected characteristic can recognise prejudice against them. This can lead to “well my friend doesn’t mind me calling them a (insert racist term) so you can’t tell me it’s wrong”. I often see women unable to spot sexism around them. I don’t see why that can’t apply to racism too. Understanding depends on individual life experience as well as what you’ve read, studied etc.

I woudl say yes it is racist. Companies spend millions on advertising and marketing and therefore know a lot about ensuring that they do not offend various cultures and ethnic groups around the world. In this case, it was (an unintentional?) oversight, and they have done the right thing to remove it. I am personally not offended but I can see why others may be. As a black person I would simply just not buy it for my child, however I can understand why many will find it offensive.

That's how I feel @spiritofadventure.

Racism is learned behaviour.

No because the number and location of the birds makes it clear that it is also making a reference to breasts.

So you realise context makes a difference?

You might trhen ask "but what if that is just a coincidence, the creators never intended any such a connection?" in that case, given the number and location I would still say that the breast thing is a perfectly reasonable inference. So it is still an innaproptiate top due to the fact that it is so reasonable to infer "sexual humour" from it.

So, you understand the concept of unintentional context, too. Although in this case, I would never ask whether it was unintentional, because I'm not that naive.

“Had H&M used a white child wearing the same hoodie, nobody would have batted an eyelid“

But isn’t this exactly the point of racism?! As it’s black people* that get this type of racist comment directed at them, not white children... after all, its err, the difference in colour that matters to racists!

Anyway, I don’t think it was meant to be racist and I don’t think it should be racist... but that’s because I’m lucky enough not to have heard such disgusting racism.

I’m lucky enough to think it’s in the past. I’m lucky enough to be incredulous that any person today could say or think such vile things.

In my mind, there is no connection between black people and jungles, trees or monkeys. So I call my DS ‘monkey’ with no thought about any darker meaning.

But that makes me lucky. It makes me privileged, in a way I wasn’t aware of until today.

But again, that’s that exactly what having privilege is all about, being blithely ignorant of the reality of others.

So instead of shouting from my little bubble, that my own experiences as a white person must be ‘The Truth For All’ ... I find myself educated on this issue, and I find myself sad to realise that we haven’t yet consigned this particular insult to history.