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Original poster

Would you consider this racist? H&M advert

999 replies

BornInSydneyy · 08/01/2018 21:12

A young black boy wearing a jumper that says -

“Coolest monkey in the jungle”

I genuinely can’t understand how anyone thought that was acceptable.

OP posts:
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10
CherryMaDeara · 09/01/2018 00:04

Failureat40

I don't think it's racist at all but I can see how it could be offensive to those who think monkey = black person (not my thoughts)

These 'I don't see racism because I don't see colour' virtue signalling posts are so unhelpful.

You are trying to turn this around by blaming the people who recognise this as unacceptable and saying their minds are at fault for thinking like this.

But actually you should be seeing things that are unacceptable and pointing them out. If you don't quite understand why they are offensive, do some research and see why things are upsetting for people who have had different experiences to you.

counterpoint · 09/01/2018 00:05

The shame is in how we treat monkeys.

Morphene · 09/01/2018 00:05

Its almost as if the same word when used in two different contexts might have different implications...

You know like when people say 'my child is a 6 yo girl' the word 'girl' isn't being used as a slur. When people say 'I hate when my son throws like a girl' then they are using the word 'girl' as a slur. So one usage of girl is fine, the other one isn't.

Putting a white child in a T-shirt saying 'Monkey' makes no connection to the racist uses of the word 'monkey'. Putting a black child in a T-shirt saying 'Monkey' could make those connection and therefore shouldn't been done in an advertising campaign.

It's genuinely not that complicated that words have a different impact when used regarding different people.

Mazanna123 · 09/01/2018 00:06

This situation really aggravates me. It's not racist - cheeky monkey is a term of endearment. I'm half black and if I hear someone shout "monkey" I certainly don't turn around.

Italiangreyhound · 09/01/2018 00:06

Personally, the use of the word 'monkey' and jungle seems really inappropriate. One or the other would seem fine.

quencher · 09/01/2018 00:06

@Phalenopsisgirl why haven't we done that? It sounds so easy and simple. Hmm

IMightMentionGriddlebone · 09/01/2018 00:07

Quencher

I hadn't seen the other shirt yet. The juxtaposition is... oh my... fuck. I can see why you think it might be deliberate now. I thought H&M were almost certainly just bloody ignorant before.

Phalenopsisgirl · 09/01/2018 00:07

The end of apartheid was idealistic once. Someone said and I can’t remember who- ‘anyone who thinks small things don’t make a difference has never slept with a mosquito’
The good can win, we just have to let it.

FaceOddity · 09/01/2018 00:09

I agree with you @Phalenopsisgirl.

I used to debate with my mum and dad about stuff like this - making something taboo gives the enemy more power - but they didn't buy it because I don't think they could understand what I was getting at. I find it hard to explain without someone getting upset even though the intention is actually to break down that barrier.

80sQueen · 09/01/2018 00:10

mazanna we should all pack up and go home then as you by your oneself don't find it offensive Wink

clumsyduck · 09/01/2018 00:10

But it isn't fuelling racism to point it out when you see it .
Kind of the opposite

HolyShmoly · 09/01/2018 00:12

griddlebone Yep, it was the contrast with the other shirt that got me.

Woodfordhound · 09/01/2018 00:13

I think it’s ridiculous to suggest we shouldn’t ‘see colour’. We should see colour in the same way as we should ‘see disability’. We do that by acknowledging that others will have different experiences to ourselves and that those experiences will often shape who they are and what they need.

So I’d look at a black woman and not pretend I see her as white but rather acknowledge that her take on things may be very different to mine based on her experiences in life. We eradicate bigotry by promoting equality of opportunity not by pretending we’re all the same.

Phalenopsisgirl · 09/01/2018 00:13

I find it sad that we are still here. I don’t expect to see the end in my lifetime but I hoped my children would be able to see monkey and think of nothing beyond an animal. Every thing like this makes that less likely, maybe my great grandkids?

IMightMentionGriddlebone · 09/01/2018 00:15

Holy

Just... wow, isn't it. That shirt was bad enough just on its own. But pairing it with a distinctly colonial themed shirt? It might as well have "Doctor Livingstone, I presume" on it.

Woodfordhound · 09/01/2018 00:19

Phalan, your children may well see nothing other that the animal. That’s fine but the point is about understanding that the experience of others, in this case those that are black, will not be the same. Many of them may have experienced the term used as a racist insult either overtly or sometimes in a subtle way and so to them there will never be any ‘seeing it as just an animal’ as it will always be a rod to beat them with.

HappyLollipop · 09/01/2018 00:33

I'm black, I don't think they were being intentionally racist or offensive but I just don't see how nobody in the whole process from the parents, stylist, photographer and the PR/Marketing team didn't think 'hmm, maybe the black boy shouldnt wear the jumper using the words monkey and jungle which are used as racist insults towards black people' it's just plain ignorance from a brand that prides itself on diversity in its advertisment doesn't seem to have any sensitivity or understanding of it.

WhatIWant · 09/01/2018 00:39

FaceOddity. The Mum didn't say anything and she was friendly to me when I met her again. I felt so stupid afterwards and I've remembered it as 'that really stupid thing I said' for the last 25 years.

I think it could be the type of comment that someone who was sneakily trying to be racist, iyswim. I really hope she didn't think that. 😔

tararabumdeay · 09/01/2018 00:40

Don't write on your children's clothes.

Weebo · 09/01/2018 00:41

Honestly, if you really want racism to be a thing of the past by the time you have great-grand-children do you really think dismissing the people who are actually affected by it is a good way to go?

I'm a 29-year-old white Irish woman - I can literally only imagine what it feels like to be subjected to/have my family subjected to racist hatred. I have no bloody business telling anyone who has how they should feel.

'If you see it you're the racist' is just so infuriatingly small minded.

fedupski · 09/01/2018 00:46

I’m 40, mixed race, and spent a large portion of my school career being compared to a monkey, the noises, bananas left on my desk, told to go back to the jungle etc. This advert is inappropriate and ignorant.
The people on here tonight who aren’t seeing why it’s inappropriate or saying that it’s propagating racism by pointing this out need to educate themselves or shut up.

Glintysea · 09/01/2018 01:14

I’m struggling to work out how people DONT think
This is racist. It’s not exactly a secret that black people have been subjected to monkey, jungle, banana insults for many decades now . It was going o 50 years ago when I was a kid and depressingly
It’s still used now. That advert was offensive, divisive and completely unacceptable IMO.

Julie8008 · 09/01/2018 01:17

I suppose it would be racist to take a black family to the zoo where any monkeys are kept. Would it also be racist to take a white family to the zoo where snow leopards are kept?

What is the world coming to when anything that can be construed to be offensive by anyone ever should be banned. Shouldn't Mumsnet be banned because it is sexist and therefore offensive to men.

FFS, stop the world I want to get off.

Bimbler · 09/01/2018 01:24

I'd be happy to see you and your great mind alight the planet.

Inthenightmoon · 09/01/2018 01:29

it is unwise because it is likely to elicit ‘oh ha ha, black child, monkey, snigger’ comments

Very silly thing to do as monkey is used as a racist slur. Someone knew what they were doing when they put that top on the child.