to be annoyed that church is so boring and missing an opportunity to teach something inspiring

[somethingmustchange]

We rarely go except on visits to MIL. Each time the service is read from exactly the same booklet, the sermon teaches nothing and is just boring reciting of the bible, the hymns are dire and sung terribly by everyone including choir. I always leave feeling depressed and cross that the vicar doesn't try to inspire a new generation or give feelings of hope, happiness, community etc. Then the church goers (all 70 plus apart from maybe 2) have coffee and judge other people that are their supposed friends. How are churches supposed to have a future if they carry on like this?

You've been mis-sold the idea of the patriarchy

Oh I see.

Your world is full of kindly father lords and sweet male dictators who protect and benevolently look after us fuzzy headed girls.

Trust me- I have not been "mis- sold"- I think you have though.

“People aren't looking to mock or insult you @backforgood they're trying to save you.”

The irony

It’s like reverse evangelism!... with the atheists haranguing Christians in the manner of a fire and brimstone preacher on a street corner! I’m not offended but get frustrated when atheists continue to attack the straw man of Christianity by insisting that the only possible variety of Christianity is fundamentalist Christianity.

It would be a bit like saying that you are totally against feminism because feminists hate men and burn their bras, and insist that someone isn’t a real feminist if they don’t do these things.

theyre trying to save you was the “irony” I meant to embolden!

Coconutella

Welcome back. Nobody is attacking a straw man of religious fundamentalism. People have listed the basic tenets of Christianity on here and asked if the self identified Christians on the thread actually believe them or not. That's not straw-manning, it's not being rude, it's not mocking, it's just asking some pretty basic questions. Questions that I note no poster has yet chosen to answer (including you).

To return to the OP, among other issues facing churches, there is a severe leadership and recruitment crisis.

patriarchy I have answered them!

I have a faith. I do not have "religion". I don't follow a set of rules. I don't say set prayers or liturgies. I don't necessarily believe that the early church shortly after Jesus' death and resurrection were anything like most churches today. I don't believe that anything we can do will make us good people. I do believe in a literal hell, and that unless someone trusts Jesus and asks forgiveness of their sins they will end up there.

But I also believe that God Is a god of second chances. I firmly believe that at some point in each of our lives God will reveal himself to us and give us all a chance to come back to Him. At least one.

The old testament (old covenant) detailed how people used to atone for their own sins by sacrifices and rituals. When Jesus died for our sins he made a New Covenant, which meant he had paid the price, mankind no longer needed to earn their salvation.

No church I have ever belonged to has preached that women are inferior. Men and women have been designed to complement eachother and do so beautifully.

I completely understand why Christians get a bad name in today's society for being homophobic, set in their ways, intolerant etc, but in my opinion this is what happens when we, as sinful humans, try to embellish the true Gospel. I ultimately don't get it right all the time either, but I'm working on it.

Hollowtree

Sorry just re-read the thread.

You have been a bit vague but basically implied that you believe the Bible miracles like loaves and fishes etc are intended to be allegorical, is that correct? I'm not trying to misrepresent you, just get it clear what you believe.

So some of my questions remain. Which parts of the Bible are literal truth then? Is any of it? Did Jesus really rise from the dead, is there a literal hell etc?

I knew this thread would go this way.

Every time. Nobody can mention a church or Christianity without the atheists heeding the klaxon and rallying to attack.

So predictable, so tedious.

Much better in the olden days when those who questioned the church were killed in horrific ways eh?

Tying back to the op- the church has lost its power and influence thankfully. Youre watching its death throes

Spadesofglory

So this literal hell, can someone who is not a Christian escape going there? Seems a bit unfair otherwise. What about people who have never heard about Christianity or have been brought up in another religion through no fault of their own. Why are they condemned to eternal damnation and torture?

Questions that I note no poster has yet chosen to answer (including you).

I had thought I had... if I have time later I’ll have a look.

I don't believe anyone who wilfully rejects the gospel will escape hell, no. People of other religions will more than likely at some point in their lives come across a Christian, or a bible, or some sort of Christian leaflet or books. In the developed world it is hard to escape any Christian influence. Third world and less developed countries, Amazonian tribes etc - that's why Christian missionaries go there. I know of many people who have come to faith out of other religions.

I believe that if someone lacks the mental capacity for understanding and appreciating that Jesus died for them they would end up in heaven regardless. I also believe unborn babies and very young children would go to heaven (I don't believe baptism is necessary for salvation either as it doesn't say that anywhere in the bible).

Men and women have been designed to complement eachother and do so beautifully.

Pass the sick bag someone.

@backformor

Thanks for pointing out those verses....they're commonly dragged up when this topic comes up.

Personally I believe that you can be gay or lesbian AND a Christian. The key word in those verses is "practice". I know a couple of Christians who have homosexual urges..but choose to remain celibate. Absolutely no problem with that. Homosexuality is exactly the same as any other sin - stealing, greed, envy, lying. The same way as a Christian who knows they have an addictive personality might avoid alcohol.

I try to adopt a "love the sinner, hate the sin" approach. I have gay friends, I don't tell them they're going to hell...I just live my life along side them and hope they see the hope I have through my words and actions.

Spadesofglory

And bingo.....

We always get one eventually. All none Christians and gays are going to burn in hell for all eternity for a characteristic about themselves that they have no control over. Oh it's ok though as long as they never act on it they can be 'saved'. Thanks God.

Thanks for showing why religion poisons everything.

OP funny you should start a thread in this topic, we went at Christmas. There were quite a few young people there.
We had an elderly priest I had not seen before ( and I go fairly regularly though dcs don't) he droned on and on and on with a really boring sermon. And they wonder why the number of church goers is dropping.
I think I shall write and complain. It was so bad long. I was afraid I wouldn't get back to baste the turkey.
They had a captive audience and ruined it.
This church service used to be packed to the rafters but it wasn't three quarters full on Christmas morning.

Homosexuality is exactly the same as any other sin

Lovely.

Homosexuality is exactly the same as any other sin

Fucking outrageous.

At the end of the day, if it's all a big fat lie it won't matter that ive lived my life a certain way. Because I will just turn to dust and disappear and be none the wiser. So I'm good with that and very much enjoy the life I'm living. I don't openly condemn anyone, I don't silently judge. I'm just answering your questions as best I can. Ultimately the whole point is FAITH...i won't ever have all the answers, so I guess you win for now !

I know a couple of Christians who have homosexual urges..but choose to remain celibate. Absolutely no problem with that.

I am glad you "have no problem with that"

And you know what- it has fuck all to do with you.

Or your hypocritical greasy church.