To think we should all just pay 1-2% income tax to help fix the nhs

[Ieatcake]

Lots of health professionals are saying it's like a third world country. We need more beds and more money for socialcare. Not many would even notice a tiny tax rise and it would help fix it ASAP.

Fix the NHS = get the Tories out, they want it to fail

Scrap Trident

Nice to be idealistic, but its naivety of international politics and would achieve nothing, since no other nuclear states would follow. The USA and Russia won't drop anything until the other does, China wouldn't ever accept the loss of prestige, India and Pakistan hate each other too much, and Israel and North Korea don't give a shit what the UN says anyway.

Which just leaves us and the French. And I can't see them doing it either.

I think it’s safe to assume that the NHS will become A&E only in the next few years. More money won’t do anything.

Just googled it. I haven't heard of them. They sound a bit retro.

Anyway, the thing that gets me boiling about Trident is all the tripe about deterrent. Let's be absolutely clear it has NOT been a deterrent and unless you're the one to push the button first, "strike-back" seems a similarly shit justification for a huge amount of cash.

Trident is an expensive insurance policy that is needed.

londonista

Agree the strike back policy seems pointless. This should probably be changed to a strike first policy, like the Russians have.

In the Russian military the senior battlefield commander has authority to use tactical nuclear weapons if they see an advantage of doing so.

Londinista, where did you get £202 Billion from?

Our entire defence spending a year is £48bn

Fucksake...

Mhairi Black very eloquently puts into words what I am too absolutely blinded with rage to do.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mhairi-blacks-powerful-speech-explaining-8446547

Full fact

Prevention is better than cure. We could save the NHS billions if we did more to stop people getting fat.

Except obese, smokers, alcoholics and such tend to cost the NHS LESS over a lifetime than 'healthy' people as they die younger and do not as a rule end up needing round the clock care from age related diseases.

I read somewhere that some Trusts are withholding certain procedures and surgeries from obese people but I can't find the article, has anyone else seen that?

Our GP surgery has a number list of missed appointments each week. It was 246 last time I went. Isn't that ridiculous. What a waste of time when others can't get an appointment.

Ours has one of those too. I am sure it said overall last year there were 800 missed appointments. I expect the reason for most of these missed ones though is that it takes a month to get one, so its so far in advance that once better (or in hospital...) you are chance to forget about it.

Instead of more taxes I'd like to see fines for missed appointments and misuse of A&E / ambulances. People need to ve responsible, not just assume someone else will pay the bill.

Also the head GP at our practice says he's become a business manager rather than a doctor because he has to run it as a business now, rather than using his expertise as a doctor - is that good use of all the years he spent training

@BagelGoesWalking that’s been true for three decades! Andy at practices have non medical practice Managers.

If he only wants to doctor he can give up his oartner position and obtain a salaried GP position in someone else practice.

I believe that more tax for the NHS was in the last libdem manifesto. The great British public said no.

Huge population increase and massive cuts. Yes, it does need to be run properly but it needs more money.

I agree with charging for doctors appointments, so many are missed or wasted as somebody doesn't want to pay for an item you can buy.

Plenty of ways to increase revenue and spending. Scrap ivf, cosmetic surgery etc and make it available privately at cost plus a small surcharge. Have an excess on hospital treat from sports injuries, alcohol, drug etc related treatment.

Raising taxes wouldn't ring fence the money and given how many net contributors we have anyway wouldn't likely solve the issue. We could divert money to the NHS from existing taxes and stop wasting money elsewhere.

God and what about mental health care? How much would the ambulance service and A+E be helped if there was a proper approach to triaging and treating mental health patients in the community (as opposed to a hospital ward)

It's going to be beyond "a significant figure".

At some point, public speculation on how much funding the NHS needs always seems to rely on "if all these ill, worried and panicking people in pain make rational, well-considered decision and go to the correct clinical provider in the first place and no-one seeks treatment inappropriately for a non-issue, we can make do with only £x billion".

And how are we going to do that? So much of the NHS's workload now is the mentally-ill, elderly people who are developing dementia and so on. We can't build a system that relies on these users contacting the correct provider by themselves, and patiently waiting indefinitely by the underfunded specialist clinic.

The services need to be properly funded, and people need to be funnelled into them before they ever end up in A&E.

Otherwise, what? Are we going to wave a wand and make everyone medically qualified enough to triage themselves? Magically eliminate the effects on decision-making of pain?

I'm idly wondering if this is the smoking ban starting to bite us on the arse.

Fewer (and declining) smokers, less tax from cigarettes on the one hand (so less money into the NHS).

People living longer, so able to develop loads of chronic conditions (plus needing their pensions paid) on the other hand, rather than paying their taxes and then popping their clogs before needing a pension.

I must admit I haven't done the sums. But then I'm pretty certain no one else has either .

I'd pay more tax for the NHS, yes, to answer the original question.

It says something doesn't it that we're all wringing our hands wondering how we can save the NHS. The fact is, we elect people to do this, we put managers and consultants to sort all this out.

Voters from all parties seem to unilaterally support the idea of a NHS thats be free at point of delivery and be best in class. Danny Boyle did a tribute to the NHS in his best-o-British opening ceremony. How can it be left to fail? Why do we keep re-electing this government?

Perhaps it's an unsolvable problem.

Anyway don't mind me. I am feeling quite fatalistic about everything post Brexit, don't mind me. It's all pretty shit ...!

Why do we keep re-electing this government?

Speak for yourself.

I think charging for missed appointments is an excellent idea.

I'd agree, if surgeries could ensure that you can always get through on the phone to cancel if you've been delayed by an emergency or public transport problems.

My practice found that their missed appointment rate went down hugely when they started texting people reminders, and offering them the option of cancelling by return text.

I think charging for missed appointments is an excellent idea.

Every time I've suggested this in various forums, I've always been show down in flames with the retort that "the poor couldn't afford it".

Anyway, given that airlines - where a flight can cost £000s - still report a number if Do Not Attends per flight, it's questionable whether it would have any effect.

Better to accept there will be a c. 10% wastage, and overbook on that basis.

Yabu. We should expect the wealthiest to pay more (I count myself in that bracket). The working poor shouldnt have to pay more tax.

I reckon if we got rid of the weather forecasts and the forecasters we could divert that money to the NHS......

It's utterly pointless to have a weather report. It's either raining or it's not.

Ok, extreme weather can be part of the news but bin the rest of it across the world.

Job done.