To think we should all just pay 1-2% income tax to help fix the nhs

[Ieatcake]

Lots of health professionals are saying it's like a third world country. We need more beds and more money for socialcare. Not many would even notice a tiny tax rise and it would help fix it ASAP.

when the conservatives suggested that, those who could, should pay for social care (down to them keeping the last £100k of assets whether they were in care homes or receiving home care) it was dubbed 'dementia tax' by the ignorant left when it was no such thing and certainly contributed to fewer votes for the Conservatives.

So what can be done if a perfectly reasonable suggestion brings down derision and censure.

Each and every service we as customers/citizens use has to be paid for.

"That won’t fix it. The Tories are deliberately making it fail, back door privitisation by stealth." The money IS available for this and other essentials - tories always prefer to give to their (very wealthy) pals instead. To those saying this isn't true there are MANY Tory MPs with huge interests in private healthcare companies or they have relatives/friends who do. Jeremy hunt wrote a flipping book on how and why it should be privatised!

In addition it's not the amount being spent it's where and how.

Paying extortionate agency fees instead of training and recruiting and properly paying regular staff, allowing regular staff to book leave and then be employed as agency staff is ridiculous and shouldn't be allowed, aside from the money leave is for recuperation in order to be fit to work, if it's not being used for that that's a potential danger to patients.

overpaying for supplies (I suspect corruption partly the issue here) and yes waste is an issue too.

having too many execs who know fuck all about health/medicine and paying them way too much inc ridiculous expenses and perks, too many bosses not enough actual workers, and yes no accountability (agree this is an issue across the public sector, if you're incompetent you should be sacked and lose your pension/bonuses).

certain consultants only working 3-4 day weeks but being paid full time salaries

social care underfunding leading to bed blocking and unnecessary admissions especially in geriatrics

poor funding and management of community mh provision leading to admissions that could have been avoided

GP services need an overhaul, where I live there's a serious shortage of GP's resulting in pressure on our ltd a&e service, they also need to have a better approach in terms of preventive medicine and not just treating symptoms without knowing the cause. If a condition I have wasn't dismissed for 14 years it would have saved nhs a fortune in symptom treatment and 2 surgeries, and that's without the amount of time I had to have off work too.

bring back proper procedures for hygiene to reduce hospital acquired infections (inc properly trained and paid cleaners)

Re appointments I have on several occasions receives letters via snail mail telling me appointment times that didn't arrive until AFTER the appointment time - that is just ridiculous.

I'm speaking as an ex nurse, I still have several friends working in the nhs, they despair at things like poor hygiene standards (which actually don't require much money to resolve but would save a fortune). I've visited friends and relatives on hospital wards so filthy I wouldn't put an animal in them let alone a sick person.

A pp mentioned degree qualifications, that came in as a response to junior Drs being overworked under the LAST Tory govt - to the point of death in some cases. Training nurses this way meant junior dr duties could be passed down to nurses, but that meant nurses had extra work but no extra resources inc staffing. It also meant nurses were having to do far more paperwork. I left because of this, because I was having very little contact time with patients and I felt that I was no longer nursing but administrating healthcare. Hca's are closer to my idea and the traditional nursing model now. But that isn't respected or valued. In addition to the nurses I know still nursing there are a fair number left for same reasons as myself among other reasons.

In summary - I think we need to go back to basics BUT find and organise them properly.

have you seen the list of Conservative MPs with financial interests in private healthcare

That and buy to lets. Good lord.

We dont need to pay more tax just prioritise spending - no HS2 no trident renewal - nhs funding sorted. But key is change of govt - tories dont use/ support principles of nhs so will always under fund.

Iwanttobe8stoneagain Drinkers don't plan things like that, do they? They won't spend the rest of the year sober. They'll do it again. What then?

How many over 50s and 60s habe their heads up the tories bottoms but are the biggest users of the NHS - hope they are happy with the NHS as run by virgin care in a few years

Wow thats not ageist is it? . shame on you, poster.

*It's not accidental, this is how the tories want it.

If you voted for them, this is what you voted for.*

What, you mean I voted for a Government that spends £130 bn per annum on its healthcare system? A figure that puts it above the OECD average and proportionally ahead of such enlightened socialist societies as Finland?

Glad I voted for them, then.

Andrewof. Most people in drunk tanks are smashed 18 year olds not serious alcoholics guess they will have to learn to plan of end up broke!

Why should I pay even more for someone else's healthcare? I am already insured as are my children. Maybe if those who could afford it took responsibility for their own healthcare it wouldn't be in such a state. The problem with the NHS isn't a lack of funding, it will always be sub par because it's a monopoly and a free for all. State monopolies hamper improved standards as there is no real incentive in the way that there is in a competitive market. And a free for all does nothing to encourage self control or self restraint. We take care of our health, don't smoke, do our best to stay healthy etc. partially because it saves us money through better premiums. We also don't go to the doctor unless we need to because we will loose our no claims bonus. Those who can afford to pay should pay leaving the NHS as a safety net for those who actually need it.

We dont need to pay more tax just prioritise spending - no HS2 no trident renewal - nhs funding sorted. But key is change of govt - tories dont use/ support principles of nhs so will always under fund

Do you understand how funding for Trident renewal works? The figures bandied about seem to be plucked out of thin air. But let's say it is actualy the £100bn that opponents keep wittering on about. That amount is reflective of 30-35 year lifespan. Which works out at around 2.5-3 billion a year. Which is around 2% of NHS funding at current levels. You can get rid of Trident by all means. But you'd have to incur the massive decommissioning costs (billions of pounds) as well as compensation to BAE systems and the various MOD and civilian employees you'd have to sack in return, for a miniscule annual saving over time in the wider scheme of things.

Restinggrinchface - and when you DO need the nhs would you pay then? A&e? Conditions not covered by your insurance?

We dont need to pay more tax just prioritise spending - no HS2 no trident renewal - nhs funding sorted.

The country wouldn't run on just the NHS alone you know! It needs infrastructure, it needs defence, it needs wealth generation through innovation and employment. It's all a mammoth balancing act to try to keep economic growth, reduce debt, maintain employment levels, etc. You can't just have a NHS in a vacuum!

I believe in The NHS, however it can be very wasteful even down to the most simple of tasks - my GP surgery insists I have an “annual review” each year due to a long term medical condition for which I am already under Consultant care, also seen annually. A few years ago they decided all reviews would be done in the month of the patient’s birth and thus sent me a letter at the start of my birthday month requesting I book in for my review. When I asked if I could be seen later in the year as my Consultant appointment was only two weeks prior, I was told no - it had to be my birthday month and I had to have these reviews done or they would refuse my monthly prescription for the drug that keeps my body ticking over. After sending the first letter by first class post, they then send a follow up chaser letter two to three weeks after, which reads “if you have already booked your appointment, please disregard this letter”, also by first class post. They have my email address and mobile number - why can they not email / text as they do for other things?

Thus, I now annually receive two unnecessary first class letters and am forced to attend an entirely pointless appointment to tick their box. It is a total waste of time, effort and money.

Yep, or take the money owed yearly from those dodging taxes that should be paid to the gov / nhs.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/hundreds-hospital-staff-could-nhs-14008830.amp

Privatisation is already happening at my work, cleaners, porters etc all being forced into a private company. Any new starters will be on a different contract, will be paid less for unsocial hours and god knows what their pensions will be like in comparison.
How many cleaners will want to work there now, when the people they'll be working with are paid more? The worst bit is that they aren't even explaining the changes or WHY they are happening to the staff, and they plan to make the change in June. Many of them are worried and scared about their future and those who can are looking at early retirement to avoid the changes that may/may not happen.

The laundry service and catering is already run by a private firm, some Sundays we can't get fresh linen, pillows, pyjamas as they don't work on Sundays! They've also deliberately reduced our linen on the ward since it came in to save money which is why we are always short.

Regardless of how much private health insurance is paid we don’t have a system that will recover costs

In an emergency you are not going to be calling your insurance company to cover these costs other countries are set up for this and the premiums are high

It’s a choice similar to private education but it is provided for you

There are private A&Es, you know, Graphista. Not saying I agree with restinggrinchface, but you can pay to go to A&E just as you can a GP, if you can afford it and there is one near you.

Joey7t8 Has a point

The NHS spends over 6 billion a year on obesity related issues.

The extreme sports etc is a mute point, over a life time they will cost the NHS statistically less as they fit and healthy.
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for a miniscule annual saving over time in the wider scheme of things.

Well that and not incinerating a few million civilians.

There are a myriad of problems the NHS face, which all need sorting, with an over arching 'project manager' if you will, who has eyes overseeing all areas, my sister is a nurse and says the chronic issues are:

Too many managers, not enough ground staff.
People not turning up for appointments
Health tourism (much bigger issue than is acknowledged)
A&E closures
Not enough GP appt's, meaning those people turn up in A&E
Misuse of A&E for issue which could have been sorted at a walk in centre or pharmacy.
Poorly managed contracts for services, no real worthy purchasing chain scrutinising for deals etc.
Prescriptions for shit like paracetemol and calpol, this needs to stop.

People quitting smoking, getting fitter, stopping the abuse of recreational drugs would also save a fortune.

Without a full review of Nhs and social care as a unit, any extra finds will only push the problem into the long grass.
I'd happily pay more tax to fund social care.

There aren't many private a&e's and the nature of a&e means you can't plan where you'll be when it happens. There are also as I and others have said - conditions not covered by private insurance. Mainly certain pre-existing conditions and mh issues.

some Sundays we can't get fresh linen, pillows, pyjamas as they don't work on Sundays!

That's the fault of the NHS procurement managers who agreed/signed the contract without getting Sunday deliveries included. All they needed to do was make it part of the contract and then the suppliers/providers could have altered their proposals accordingly.

Same with PFI - the PFI firms didn't hold a gun to the NHS managers' head - like any contract, it's all about negotiation.

Sounds like we need to improve the standard of the procurement managers so that they're more capable of dealing with contract specifications and negotiations.

There aren't many private a&e's and the nature of a&e means you can't plan where you'll be when it happens.

That's because there's no demand due to the NHS providing free A&E departments.

In many other countries, you DO have plenty of choices as to where to go when you need urgent medical attention. That's because without free A&E provided by the NHS, you will get private firms willing and eager to provide the service - they'll have to compete with eachother for the business, so will put clinics etc where they think there is a need, and will have to compete on price - so you'd have more choice and lower cost - it's pretty simple economics.

Well that and not incinerating a few million civilians

During the Rwandan genocide in 1993 the Hutu's killed nigh on a million Tutsi's using simple machetes. In 100 days. Any weapon can be a weapon of mass destruction given the opportunity.