To be worried about House of Fraser

[Viviennemary]

Seems this is the next chain to be in trouble. And Debenhams hasn't been doing to well either lately according to the news tonight. I don't buy a great deal in either of these but would be really sad to see them go. Woolworths gone and then BHS. at the thought they might disappear

Now there is Amazon.de and I could be in Germany. What's not to like

and I don't even have to wait for them to arrive I just download to my kindle app. And I used to work in a library! But the convenience of reading cheap paperbacks on a kindle is just amazing. I still buy proper books if I think I will keep them, but if I know that I will just read them once - whether in English or German, I just get the kindle version. I do use the library too before you shoot me.

As for buying online versus in high street shops - the issue is surely whether you can get what you want in the high street. My town has no bookshop left other than WH Smith although the next town does have a small Waterstones. It's chicken and egg - can you not get what you want because the shops are not there or don't stock what you want - or do they not stock what you want because you buy online? Even though my town is quite affluent we don't have decent shops because we're not that far from places like Reading and Guildford, which do. But I don't want to drive 30 minutes every time I want to buy something. Fortunately Farnham is not that far, and has some of the nice clothes chains, albeit that the stores are small.

Before Christmas I went to Salisbury to do some Christmas shopping - and have been to Winchester too. Both have a Debenhams (or did last time I was there).

The really interesting thing is that my best friend lives in a small town outside Hamburg. It is the same size as the town I live in terms of population. But it has a buzzing shopping centre with lots of useful shops. I can only assume they don't have the out of town centres, and online shopping hasn't taken off in Germany like it has in the UK.

More importantly FPs, what do we want from our high street if all these big stores close? Amazingly, the book shop Waterstones are opening 20 new stores nationwide. So what are they doing that’s so attaractive to customers? Not more coffee shops please!

WH Smith is a shop that has that 'Woolworth's' feeling just before the whole chain collapsed back in 2008. It's cramped and just a hotch-potch of random (and not very cheap) tat. And our local one isn't even more than about five years old.

I would love a shop that sells women’s clothes & accessories from a mix of brands & independents, smart & casual with great customer service. Like a more affordable Matches.

I'm really not bothered about Debenhams. I used to work there whilst I was at college and we all got treated like crap and threatened with disciplinaries if we didn't get enough people to sign up to Debenhams cards.

I think thstores that own their premises are the ones that will survive

David Morgan's in Cardiff had to close partly because of the cost of the upkeep of the building, so I suppose it depends on the age of the building. It was a lovely maze of a store.

terrible Debenhams (honestly think they must own that building!)

Unlikely as most got sold off after they were bought in around 2006.

Ive never been posh enough for house of fraser! Its always felt a bit expensive and fancy. All the debenhams near me are dark dingy but with really bright spot lights on one thing (i don't even know how its blinding bright and dingy at the same time) and crammed with stuff, that said i go in and always find what i need. I just don't go in very often as it doesn't feel very pleasant.

WH smiths are a shop definitely on borrowed time, they all feel horrid and are very expensive.

House of Fraser - I like the merchandise and you can get some great reductions. However with the exception of the Guildford and Bluewater branches, the shopping experience leaves a lot to be desired. The worse branch I have been in for unhelpful staff is the branch in Victoria (London) which used to be Army and Navy - the staff are particularly unhelpful in there. I recently went back in after a long absence - it has had a long overdue makeover but the staff just look so unhappy. Somebody upthread mentioned that the staff were treated badly which would obviously flow down into the customer experience. I would miss this chain if it went belly up.

I wouldn't miss Debenhams so much. It has been going downhill for years. They have too many faux designer brands, which are not designer at all, and their merchandise has gradually diminished in quality. They cram too much in their stores. Their flagship shop in Oxford Street is a depressing experience. Their staff seem depressed too, which is perhaps symptomatic of their terms and conditions. They also hardsell their storecard at the tillpoint - they will ask several times if you want to open one even if you have politely made it clear that you wouldn't. I can see Debenhams leaving the High Street before House of Fraser.

As a country we are in a strange place with shopping. We still love shopping, and go to look in the shops, but buy most of our stuff online, for the convenience and more specifically, for a better price. Perhaps when shops disappear from the High Street we will get proper hobbies rather than shopping!

i see mothercare didnt do too well either

In Edinburgh HofF took over Jenner’s department store a couple of years ago despite having a large flagship store at the other end of the street (and there being a John Lewis). The result was predicable - most people can’t be bothered to walk along to the west end to their store so it’s going to close as far as I know.

John Lewis is also struggling due to the closure of St James Centre as it’s a trek to get to the store now and is usually utterly deserted (apart from the restaurant but folk are only redeeming their free hot drink and cake voucher).

Apart from that, many of the shops on P Street are of the tartan tat variety. Short leases selling overpriced tartan products made in China to Japanese and Italian tourists.

Long gone are the days of the small independent sellers there. Shame as that’s what the tourists would probably spend more money on - especially if it was locally made or at least a Scottish brand!

I used to frequent HOF a great deal years ago but as a size 18 found oasis, Ted baker etc not suitable and Jaeger etc far too old for me as a then 20 something. Made up for it in beauty products and cushions though!
Then I had children.
And then a John Lewis opened.
So now I get to buy Joules, fat face and white stuff things for me, the JL childrens clothes are bang on style and cost for my children, they have much better homeware and a welcoming, clean, family friendly cafe. So as a result ive been in HOF perhaps 5 times in past 10 years.
I'd miss the HOF here (cardiff) as it's an institution, but equally can't ever see me shop there again.
Edit: just remembered I have been in to squeeze the mulberry bags recently. I stood for 10 mins trying to get served while the sales assistant ignored me and served someone else with a look of 'you can't afford these' on her face. I could. And did. Via John Lewis website.

I’ve never used Debenhams but I use HoF a lot. Clothes and makeup.

Mostly online.

I like the combination of brands.

Even got a store card (which has been taken over by a nightmare company who are borderline shysters).

Their stores are fairly hopeless though. My nearest one isn’t big enough to have sufficient stock range.

Never go in HoF but buy the vast majority of lingerie (why do I detest that word?!) in Debenhams so I'd be very disappointed if that went.

Amazon for books is fine if you already know what you want but you can't beat a genuine independent bookshop for good surprises. I love the London Review of Books book shop near the British museum, especially for poetry. It's just a joy to shop in that shop. In general London has some fantastic independent bookstores. I would never buy a book online unless it is prompted to do so by something I am already reading.

The trouble is a) that we have fundamentally changed our shopping habits b) firms haven’t adapted to this and expend energy bewailing a) and c) companies like Amazon have used their dominant market position to eliminate competition

It’s a faint blow in the wrong direction from falling over. Spend any vouchers, points or gift cards ASAP!

In Edinburgh HofF took over Jenner’s department store a couple of years ago

Ha ha actually that was in 2005.

Going to try very hard not to out myself here - but I have been working in my local Debenhams in recent weeks (not for much longer!).

The store is shoddy and behind the scenes it is worse. It is firefighting everything rather than making proper investment.

Staff are told daily how many cards they need to sell and there are leader boards to make everyone feel like crap...

But it is the poor management that gets me. You are given your minimum contracted hours and they randomly add to them without asking you, pay is based on your contracted hours and extra hours are paid at some random later date (Ive yet to work out how this happens). I've never seen my contract, I haven't received a payslip, I tried calling in sick and the number I was given was never answered... Staff are hired to do 5 hour shifts and then go home (that way you work bloody hard and they don't have to give you a break). And its minimum wage with few perks.

toilets are broken, floors and carpets needs replacing, equipment unusable and no training.

I'm leaving in a few days...

Compare to John Lewis where staff are everything. The training they get is impressive, they receive a decent wage and the perks of being partners and they seem to take pride in their work. Happy staff are the key to a good shopping experience and this is what so many retailers seem to misunderstand.

Wouldn’t occur to me to shop in a Debenhams. Their own brands are frumpy but the main problem (in House of Failure too) is that if your looking for, say, jeans, you have to look in 47 different locations all over the shop to see what jeans they actually sell. I just haven’t got the stamina or the will...

I'm no great fan of HoF or Debs. But I don't want to see the High Street diminished further in its march towards pound shops and charity stores. I can get a phone unlocked at countless " half shops" but I can no longer buy a pair of tights!! I hate Amazon and their ethos and I object to paying for delivery particularly as I'm rarely there to accept it. I do a lot of online browsing but the actual purchase tends to be in store. I appreciate to compete retailers have shot themselves in the foot running down ranges and staff to save costs - making shopping an appauling experience. However if this trend to online continues what happens to the staff and jobs currently in retail - it's a large employment ( particularly women ) and tax generation sector... what takes up this slack - because Amazon and UPS or similar won't and can't. For instance I can be a shop assistant, but I can't drive or commute to a warehouse in the Midlands. I do like to feel the material, sit on the seat etc. before I purchase, so it's shops for me... and if they close I'm totally messed up.

Greysquirrell, we had exactly the same experience in HOF Cardiff. We went specifically to get my daughter a Mulberry bag, and we had to interrupt a conversation between the two assistants at the Mulberry counter before they would deign to serve us. Very offhand, oh we'll get one from stock and produced this Mulberry bag full of scratches. I queried it and they explained oh this is just an example of the colour. So eventually she had to go back to the stockroom once again to get a new one for us to buy!! It's fatal for shop assistants to make snap judgements on people. I had a friend who worked for a very upmarket bespoke furnishing place which was part of a stately home. I always remember her telling me about the scruffiest people who would land in their helicopter to do their shopping!!!

I would love to shop in house of frasier there but they always have the music so loud! I love Debenhams but there’s no branch near me.
I have no idea what the answer is, I just wish I could buy clothes easier, get a space near the shop to park and know which shops will actually have my size and have real sizes not vanity sizes... I bloody hate clothes shopping now!

Moo Do Miles and Martin work alongside Daphne and Ros in House of Fraser?

Damn autocorrect buggering my attempt at humour there. Grrrr

House of Fraser - rarely go in - expensive and old fashioned stock. Debehams has lost its way - not sure what it’s meant to be good for now. I hear Mothercare isn’t doing well either?