...to wonder if we’re the first generation to stand up to MILs?

[BlairBass]

Just an idle thought as I’ve seen on quite a few threads others who have decided that low-contact or no-contact were called for with MIL (and for totally valid reasons!)
But do you think we’re the first generation to have the strength of mind or defiance of social norms to do this?
It seems to me that historically If you got a dodgy mother in law you just had to put up with her... it would have been so far outside of society/family values to simply refuse to see her.
I think it’s wonderful and the way of the future - but I wonder why so many MILs are so determined to be intrusive, judgemental, rude, etc. Would they do this if it was a very real option that they’d lose contact with their son’s wife and children? Hmmmm...
also, I am sure there are many ghastly daughter in laws too, I just don’t hear so many stories 😉

This is a sad thread.

bomb, she's not quite right. It's true that there have always been groups (eg., groups within the aristocracy) who were able to learn a great deal about prospective in-laws. But, equally, there have also always been many groups who couldn't find these things out so easily, and who were interacting with more rapidly-shifting social sets.

It's a basic error to imagine that 'back in the day' no one moved from their tiny village and everyone knew everyone. Broadly, it's a nostalgic myth. What's interesting is that people tell that story over and over - you find it cropping up in many different centuries, as people say 'well, back in the day, everyone knew everyone, and now it is all different'.

How ridiculous - of course not.

There have always been strong bolshy women and families have fallen out and not spoken since time immemorial. Men often disliked their own mothers just as they do now.

What we are is only only the 3rd or 4th generation where our MIL always live long enough to get on our nerves.

And the only the 1st or 2nd who get to moan about them outside our immediate f&f.

Ok put it this way. I was knocked into outer galaxy when my Mil was nasty to me, I couldn't understand it, she was Vile after the birth Vile at the so many other times.
Having lost my own family I just didn't know what to do, a health visitor said get dh to take the baby once a week! She would wake baby up, baby screamed and said she it's because baby didn't know her!

I just felt we had to keep contact even though my health, life, marriage was suffering.

Then I found mumsnet. I read story after story off the same issues, same family dynamics.... And through this, and otherwise things we have strength to go lower contract.

To those of you that have gone low/no contact with MIL, how has it been?

Is it awkward, did the verbal abuse/spiteful comments etc increase? Did they spread around a different story to others or try to crawl back etc?

I get on really well with mil. Love her almost as much as my own mum! BUT I did stand up to her over a disagreement about 12 years ago. I don't think it's unusual I just prefer to stand for my rights with my Dcs granny who will be in our lives forever.

My mil is very nice.

Sometimes she is a pain.

She tries her best. She's always tried hard not to offend me.

One might also find it fascinating.

Ultimately, intergenerational relationships between women speak volumes about the ways our societies have evolved over time.

How we currently think about family hierarchies (and paternal/maternal authority in particular) is hugely important in terms of understanding the social changes that have taken place over the past century.

I say well done to the OP for posing the question.

OP, do you think we’re the first generation to have the strength of mind or defiance of social norms to do this? No love. You're not.

I find the arrogance of this statement very amusing and sad too. Naturally all previous generations have lacked the strength of mind and character and intelligence to stand up for themselves. It's only people like you are who are so superior to the generations who have gone before you that are so clever and able to have a mind of their own.

And Mumonashoestring tries to make an intelligent comment about social mobility and gets shot down for it. Jeez.

I haven't spoken to or seen my MIL since 1990. Don't even know where she lives now and don't care to.
I'm old enough to be Mum to many of you LOL.
There have always been strong women. Even hundreds of years ago. Those Poineer women who crossed America in a covered wagon, were pretty dam strong and adventurous.

I disagree too. My mum still doesn't take shit off my grandmother despite her being 88 years old and people think we should pussyfoot around her- but it's hard to let things go for lifetime sometimes.

She's done some pretty nasty shit that woman (to the extent she hasnt even met my DD who is nearly 3 because that is how little I trust her).

My MIL, herself a difficult character, went n/c with hers. That was before DW was born and we are both in our sixties.

YY, troel.

Just saw your comment @LRDtheFeministDragon. And you're right: it's not a universally applicable concept.

For people in the "new" world (Australia, the United States) it's certainly not the case. And for those who left rural life to settle in cities distant from their origins, it's equally untrue.

But I must say that in my own experience, which is both academic and anecdotal, there is definitely something to what @mumonashoestring was articulating.

Let me be clear: I'm not suggesting that that level of "knowledge" was, or is, always helpful (or even accurate). Not am I bemoaning the loss of some sort of agrarian fairytale.

I'm simply saying that multigenerational awareness of families, and, specifically, long term knowledge of individuals, can definitely add something significant to decision making.

I had mine done in June ( I am 31 ) pain in the a hole giving it another month to settle or I am getting rid .

Going lc has been hard, I am a family person, I love popping in on people, chatting, having people pop in, laughter, dinners etc...

My family are gone so it's very sad but we don't get warmth, happiness or positively from in laws... I have gone long way to accept she and they are not what I envisage. Family treat me with disdain, of course I get all the the blame...

I stood up to my MIL she was a witch and I wrote a letter to her explaining why I never wanted to see her again. 1991, She took it down the WMC and showed it around saying this is what she had to put up with!!!
When she was dying 1997 I tried to make my peace and she told me she would come back and haunt me so I told her she wouldnt be able to from where she was going.
And she hasnt,
Live is much better these last 20 years :)

I don't disagree there's something to it, and that it's true for some communities. Of course it is. But it would be a mistake to think it's true of the majority, across history, and that we modern folk are somehow seeing a time of dramatic difference in this respect. I think that's also a slightly self-centred (if not arrogant) perspective.

There are still plenty of communities today where everyone knows everyone. Sometimes on the internet, too - I have friends who're in the American Baptist community, and they have a hugely wide social network. You might not know your prospective MIL in the sense of meeting her every Sunday or seeing her every week, but you will know her through the church's online presence, all the same. And the community as a whole will know her. Even if you actually live what, until recently, would have been days' or weeks' journey apart.

I don't think it's just about standing up to MILs. There seems (on MN at least) to be the view that there is a generation of older mothers of sons who are all cows - the default seems to be to assume that MILs are by definition evil witches, rather than assume that they're normal pleasant women and be shocked if they're not. But yet presumably 50% of the MNers who are determined to see the worst in their MILs are also the mothers of sons - are they all also going to suddenly become cows when their sons grow up? Of course not. It makes no sense.

I should confess that I am a MIL - I think/hope my DIL likes me. I certainly like her. And I do appreciate that there are some genuinely awful MILs out there. But some of the crap I read here (effectively it's "She looked at me funny so we're going NC") makes me want to weep.

(And btw, I find it fascinating too! Not just the actual facts of how women interact, but the next level of how we believe we interact.)

I’ve obviously expressed myself really badly, apologies, I didn’t mean to imply that women of previous generations weren’t strong and didn’t stand up for themselves. I was just musing that is not previously been aware of many women who had been able to go no-contact. But I readily confess that I haven’t studied genealogy or sociology. I do find social dynamics fascinating.
To anyone who’s struggled with MiL or DiL, FiL or own family members - it’s really, really tough and you have my sympathy x

Not at all. Its just more noticeable now due to social media.

Anyone of my grandparents generation would just never admit to anyone if they went low/non contact and would probably use the excuse that they didn't drive or the transport wasnt efficient enough for them to see whoever they're avoiding.

I think it would have been harder to go no-contact in the days when your husband had all the rights to the children and the money. But I would suspect that's often divorce-level issue (if the son believes his mother deserves whole-family visits and the daughter-in-law thinks they ought to go no-contact) even today.

Probably yes. Both my grandmothers had extremely difficult mils but due to the social mores of the time they were stuck with them, though both my grandmothers strong wonderful women.

First gm who never had a bad word for anyone described her mil as "extremely difficult"

Second gm said when they happily announced their engagement to her dh parents mil burst into tears and left the room wailing "it should have been Barbara" and things went down hill from there.