...to consider teacher training once DCs are at school?

[GandTforme]

Is teaching (primary) really so stressful and unpleasant?

My DTs are 18mo now and I work part time in local government (social work assistant within an adult team). My job is ok but the only way to progress would be to go full time in a few years when dc start school and train in social work - I'm not sure that I enjoy my job enough to do that.

I have always just had 'jobs' rather than a 'career' but I would like to remedy this in the future. The only thing that has ever really appealed to me is teaching. My local city has a training federation offering the pgce and I was toying with the idea of applying for this when the dc are 4/5 and I will once again be able to work/study full time. But after looking into it there are so many horror stories about how dreadful the job is these days, how many people burn out, how much overtime is required. Now I'm used to stress, working in a social work team. But what I read about teaching makes it sound like it's on another level of awfulness compared to other local government professions.

What's the truth? Would I be mad to consider working towards it?

Do it if you really have a passion for it. Teaching can be the most rewarding job. Just be prepared to accept:

• you will never pick up your own dcs from school
• you will never watch your own dc's nativity or concerts. sports day, art day, assembly or special awards events
• you will never meet their friends or friends parents and sometimes their teacher
• you will never have a free weekend with them because you will be preparing for the next week
• you will never have a free evening because as soon as they are in bed you will need to do your next day's prep, marking etc
• you will need need to pay for before and after school childcare and for holiday childcare. (You will need to go in to school to prepare your class and for meetings in the holidays).
• you will never ever ever be able to do the job well enough to satisfy all the children, the parents, the senior management, ofsted, your own family and yourself

MaisyPops you implied only ‘professional martyrs’ work long hours. Yes some may want to reinvent the wheel or laminate everything but for many that’s not the case. It’s not the planning and the teaching that takes up those extra hours, it is everything else I mentioned. Your experiences don’t mean others are lying or less capable.

Do it if you really have a passion for it. Teaching can be the most rewarding job. Just be prepared to accept:

• you will never pick up your own dcs from school
• you will never watch your own dc's nativity or concerts. sports day, art day, assembly or special awards events
• you will never meet their friends or friends parents and sometimes their teacher
• you will never have a free weekend with them because you will be preparing for the next week
• you will never have a free evening because as soon as they are in bed you will need to do your next day's prep, marking etc
• you will need need to pay for before and after school childcare and for holiday childcare. (You will need to go in to school to prepare your class and for meetings in the holidays).
• you will never ever ever be able to do the job well enough to satisfy all the children, the parents, the senior management, ofsted, your own family and yourself

I have a few times as I teach at the secondary and we finish before the primary especially if there's an after school club. I know I am lucky to have a job in my catchment though.

My school have been great with LOA for this.

Good point -though we have a Facebook group for parents of my daughters school. Have met her teacher five times since September.

I often have weekends off. If I do work it's only ever on a Sunday for a bit.

Often have free evenings having left at 5pm-6pm

Never go in for holidays and if we do for revision we are paid £100 a day.
Childcare yes that does cost like most jobs.

The last bit is the most worrisome you can never satisfy some people and the pressure can get to you but as another poster said this is where you don't take it too seriously. Its a job.

The pay off for missing drop offs/ pick ups is the holidays with your own children. Never have I had to have a childminder in school holidays.

For me the worst thing is the pointless marking and the behaviour. If the kids tried their best then the marking would be for a reason. I would do anything for children who listen.

It's not relevant to say that teacher friends managed to raise their kids whilst teaching because the huge changes in demand and workload have really increased in the last couple of years even. It's a different ball game now to even 5 years ago. Thanks Tory government .

PinkAvocado
No I didn't.

I painted 2 extremes: people who will tell you never to do it and people who live for teaching who spend hours laminating everything whilst moaning and being slightly chuffed with their dedication.

I then mentioned that reality is often a middle ground.
I also mentioned it is workplace specific and gave examples of good and bad workplaces.

Sometimes I do think posters on MN have a point about how some teachers get very twitchy over their working hours.

Sometimes I think people minimise other’s experiences when they don’t match their own. You didn’t paint extremes - you said the ones doing long hours were professional martyrs doing laminating.

Also primary and secondary are different ball games. Both very stressful but the stressors are somewhat different.

properlavs I mean they are doing this currently. My best friend has a 10 and 5 year old and regularly picks them up from school. My other close friend has a 5 year old and he has no particular issues above and beyond those many people in averagely stressful jobs have. In the private sector you have to work early and late, pay through the nose for childcare, never truly feel finished, deal with office politics - the stresses are the similar.

My post:
There will always be some who will tell ypu to never join teaching because it is the worst job ever and the most stressful job in the whole world.
Some live for teachinv and spend 80 hours a week making laminated name tags etc and are professional martyrs.
But in my experience the reality is in tje middle
Aka-
Some will tell you not to so it because it's the most stressful job in the world.

Some live for teaching and spens their life laminating shit whilst complaining about their workload (and more often than not the complaining is tinged with 'but look how dedicated i am).

I've worked in crappy environments where I was probably close to being in camp 1 because teaching was ruining my health.

I currently work in a great school and have a better balance on a 50 hour week.

And I still think there are a chunk of staff are professional martyrs. The ones who reinvent the wheel, spend ages on tasks that aren't needed, sit chatting during PPA and then complain that they are swamped with work, people like my colleague who spends huge amounts of her non-teaching time on her phone only to complain that she has loads of marking to do at home.

Spend some time in a school. See if you like the environment. What would you teach?

My best friend has a 10 and 5 year old and regularly picks them up from school

Blimey-how?! I finish at 3.20 and even if I could leave work instantly, I couldn’t get anywhere near my primary-age children’s school for pick-up!

When I trained to be a teacher, I knew it was going to be hard work beyond classroom hours. The PGCE was very demanding. The early years of teaching in the mid 2000s seem like halcyon days now, mainly because each piece of work only had to be marked once. Planning got much quicker and easier with a few years experience, especially when there were existing lessons, schemes of work and resources that just needed tweaking to update.

Since having two DCs since 2010 working conditions and load have deteriorated rapidly.

Hopefully Brexit is providing a useful distraction from government interference that was rife in the Gove days. I don't know as I stopped two academic years ago because I valued my own DCs time and felt it was being compromised too heavily.

I actually found it harder when they went to school. Nursery was a more relaxing environment. DS1 was totally exhausted by breakfast club/ reception and after-school club and resented being the last to be picked up and never seeing a parent at events. He was struggling with reading, and we were both too exhausted to do it at 8pm . Quite simply, in a house of two demanding workloads and DH frequently working away, and no family support, my DCs needed me far more than my school pupils.

I still love the act of teaching and left a good while before I broke, but having had a parent work themselves to death in their mid 50s, I am not willing to go near that kind of sacrifice unnecessarily.

I know other professions are struggling and racing to the bottom too, but I can only describe my experiences of teaching.

urgent
I know the feeling. Had I stayed in one of my previous schools there is no way I would still be teaching.

I would have gone back to my pre-teachimg career or done something else or had a mental breakdown.

It is so school dependent isn't it.

I'm secondary and generally our working hours are shorter than primary.

I qualified 15 years ago and it has changed massively over that time.

Workload is crackers. I teach around 150 students each week and I only teach 3 days a week and have a number of very small classes.

My marking workload is only sustainable because I work 3 days and so can do a lot on my days off. Spending just 2 minutes marking per student gives me 5 hours of marking from those three days. Two minutes is often insufficient when marking coursework or assessments so it can go up massively. Particularly as my school has introduced a new marking policy which means I have to mark in a very specific way. On top I have to attend 1 or 2 meetings after school, plan lessons, contact parents, update data, put in place intervention, fill out paperwork for behaviour and run intervention sessions and in between all that deliver lessons where everyone is engaged and making progress!

I might cope with most of the above if it wasn't the general feeling that whatever you do in the classroom you're not good enough. I'm watching excellent teachers being broken by SLT determined to find fault.

I'm so scared for my children who are now in this system. I'm worried for their mental health and mine. Honestly OP I'd do something else. Hopefully in 10 years it will have changed again and maybe you could try then.

I don't recognise the professional martyrs MaisyPops describes. Maybe this is a secondary thing? Or maybe they are staff who don't have children so have more time to spend on their work.

soimpressed
It's a cross phase thing in my experience (and comes up on other forums i am on). I don't think the 'it must be secondary' with the implication of 'obviously in primary we are so overworked we couldn't possibly find ourselves doing anything beyond the minimum required' is that helpful.
I have experience of both. I have seen it in both.

There are professional martyrs in almost any line of work.

Examples I have seen:
Secondary teacher in over the holidays decorating their room with a large scale underground map to display connectives

Primary teacher making new labrls for trays and pegs to match the new term's topic

Primary and secondary teachers doing new displays every 4-6 weeks (not talking about working walls here or tweaks to keep it updated. Full overhauls of everything)

Staff (both sectors) who decide their room needs a 'theme' each year and so do it all from scratch each year.

People photocopying and trimming learning objectives to go in exercise books when it has zero impact on progress (where school has a stupid expectations on books, i get staff having to do it. Doing just because when there's no need? Not really sensible)

Teacher spending a PPA drawing pictures abd colouring to go oj display

People spending hours making and cutting card sorts that get used for 15 minutes for one lesson.

Spending time doing 4 different worksheets on different coloured paper for multiple lessons a day.

Writing long essays in student books. It has no impact on learning

People who take photos of their marking and put it on facebook / check in at costa doing their marking on a weekend.

People sitting and chatting through their PPA and then being annoyed tjat they have to take books home.

Marking every single piece of work in lots of detail. Sonfar there is limited evidence this has any impact and Ofsted are not looking for it.

Printing out quizzes or starter activities which can be done from the board.

Opting to do lessons which take 3 hours to plan when the lesson is only an hour. Are we seriously suggesting children are gaining so much extra for the extra time.

People spending their weekends going shopping for school supplies for their classroom.

How many hours are spent getting images for worksheets or powerpoints? How much time is spent making power points abd flipcharts look pretty?

Nobody is going to come on this thread and openly admit to being a martyr or a timewaster though are they?

Workload is a massive issue and some stuff is pointless paperwork for the sake of it. I don't dispute that. I spent part of last term arguing against more pointless collection of intervention information for students because it is excessive and not helpful for staff.
But equally, a bit of reflection on our own working habits is also worth doing now and then. It's not always comfortable, but it can be eye opening.

E.g. I used to teach a topic by having a range of carousel activities over a week. It was time consuming to plan and resource. It looked amazing and under old 'progress in 20 mins' it would get outstanding. But actually i'm not entirely convinced i meant more learning than a less time consuming lesson to plan.

Teaching is a career for a single person who doesn't mind working all day, night and weekend during term time in exchange for long holidays. It's incredibly stressful and not a career for a mother - you will never see your own children. It isn't well paid either due to ongoing budget cuts, and pupil behaviour and violence (especially in secondary schools) gets worse every year. People who are already qualified as teachers are leaving in droves so wouldn't recommend anyone to get into teaching when everyone else is trying to get out!

I have recently retired from a senior post, after 4 decades of teaching in secondary schools, with a brief stint in primary.
It used to be about developing young minds in an understanding of the world, relationships and subject knowledge.
Now, teachers are administrators, behaviourists and jacks of all trades. Meanwhile, educational standards slip.
I loved teaching, but would not go into the profession if I had my time again. I applauded those who still are passionate enough to want to enter the profession.

soul destroying job

I think recent research has shown that the biggest impact on student learning is teacher knowledge. Then l think the next thing was relationship with teacher.

So we just seem to keep reinventing the wheel doing endless resources for what exactly?

MaisyPops you are obviously an expert on juggling your teaching, your own children and all the horrible professional martyrs you have to work with!

My best friend has a 10 and 5 year old and regularly picks them up from school.

Really? How?!

(your friend is a teacher yes?)

Don’t go into it unless you really have a passion for your subject and a passion for teaching it. Otherwise you’re setting yourself up for a tough job, long hours and the biggest pressure of all: never being able to balance the demands of pupils, parents, managers and the govt!

Having said that, although the PGCE and NQT year are dire, it does get easier over time as you learn to cut corners and streamline.

Not really a family friendly job. Ok the holidays are good when your children are school age, but when my kids were at nursery, my kids (and those of other teachers) were always first to be dropped off in the morning. It seemed that a lot of office workers could get into work at 8.45 for a 9 am start, whereas in teaching, being in work at 7.30 is fairly normal and 8 am would probably leave many teachers chasing their tail all day playing catch up.

The thing I find really scandalous is the number of (female) teachers who work part time because that’s the only way they can cope, so invariably scupper their pension (which is one of the few perks of the job) and often end up doing prep and marking on their ‘days off.’

My advice would be: go for it if you’re really committed, work your way up so you’re getting the benefit of greater responsibility and better salary, and at least get the benefits of the job. Don’t be a martyr being paid for 3 days and working for 5 with a shot to pieces pension as your reward when you finally burn out

So we just seem to keep reinventing the wheel doing endless resources for what exactly?
Careful. People don't like it if you suggest any work done is anything other that the bare mininum.

MaisyPops you are obviously an expert on juggling your teaching, your own children and all the horrible professional martyrs you have to work with!
I'm not an expert. But I havr looked at my situations, the schools I've worked in and my own actions and made changes as needed.

But I've worked in a horrible toxic environment where workload was bloody awful and it damaged my health (like some on here are experiencing). I've worked in middley schools abd am currently in a good which whilst it has its fair share of pointless paperwork and ticking boxes is a nice place to work.

I've been the person working 70/80 hour weeks and now I work 50.

Despite all of that, I still think some teachers spend time doing silly tasks and reinventing the wheel whilst moaning about workload.

I'm the first to defend teachers regarding workload when other posters are being awful about teaching (especially because lots of stuff is crap from on high), but given how much my suggestion that there are people who reinvent the wheel whilst going in about workload has hit such a nerve, I'm wondering whether that's how some people on MN think staff don't help themselves sometimes.

Perhaps the endless labelling and laminating is escape / mindfulness for some people? There’s definitely a “type” who see that as important / high priority in their work. Look how much of this stuff is on twinkl, for instance. There are distraction tasks like this in any job, you feel like you are working hard but you aren’t doing productive work!

I think one of the positives about teaching which hasn’t been mentioned is that it’s reasonably easy to get and keep work. Many people I know were made redundant last year and struggling to find alternate work that pays what they need it to.