...to consider teacher training once DCs are at school?

[GandTforme]

Is teaching (primary) really so stressful and unpleasant?

My DTs are 18mo now and I work part time in local government (social work assistant within an adult team). My job is ok but the only way to progress would be to go full time in a few years when dc start school and train in social work - I'm not sure that I enjoy my job enough to do that.

I have always just had 'jobs' rather than a 'career' but I would like to remedy this in the future. The only thing that has ever really appealed to me is teaching. My local city has a training federation offering the pgce and I was toying with the idea of applying for this when the dc are 4/5 and I will once again be able to work/study full time. But after looking into it there are so many horror stories about how dreadful the job is these days, how many people burn out, how much overtime is required. Now I'm used to stress, working in a social work team. But what I read about teaching makes it sound like it's on another level of awfulness compared to other local government professions.

What's the truth? Would I be mad to consider working towards it?

Sorry, Tinkerbec I should have worked that out from your earlier post. I think what you’ve said is right regarding the differences.

So how easy is it to get another job when you are only qualified to teach? I am a TA , which I love , but it doesn't pay enough. I was planning on training to become a teacher in a couple of years when my youngest goes to secondary but this post is scaring me!

I'm planning to go into primary teaching too but from a different situation to you. I'll be doing it from undergraduate level and my children are much much older than yours. I do voluntary work in school a couple of days a week but I'm so aware that while I'm helping I'm not seeing the whole picture. Luckily I come from a family full of teachers (both secondary and primary) so I know that the reality can be really bad. But at the moment I absolutely love what I'm doing and, for me, this is the right time. I wouldn't have (and couldn't have) considered it while my children were young because I don't have the support needed or the money to pay for the childcare we'd have needed.

Teaching made me feel not good enough.

The huge pressures and expectations are unachievable.

My best never felt good enough. (Despite actually being an 'outstanding' teacher)

I would also caution you by saying that I found the pgce quite easy and the nqt year with the lighter timetable containable but then the next year hit like a ton of bricks.

You will work all the hours, yet it will never be finished.
You will do your very best, always improving your lessons, yet it will never be good enough.
Your pupils will make progress, yet it won't be sufficient.
You won't get enough sleep.
You certainly won't see your own children's in-school events.

It really is as bad as current & former teachers say it is.

Am assuming you're currently working for a local authority? My LA has a flexi-time policy (social worker here) which means I accrue the extra hours I put in. Don't underestimate this if you also have this. Teachers might work similar hours but it doesn't get credited. I know the reality might be it's difficult to take flexi leave but at least the policy is there (I've also worked in education).

I did my degree then Pgce with young DC’s in tow and it was bloody hard. But do you know what...I love my job. It’s challenging, stressful and thankless at times but it also offers me a career where every day is different, every day is a fresh start and overall, It makes me happy.
I’m not going to lie and say it hasn’t impacted on my Dcs because it has, but I try to counterbalance that by spending quality time with them during the holidays and at weekends.
No job is perfect, and teaching is tough but I honestly wouldn’t rather be doing anything else.

I love children, I loved the teaching part of my (Primary, Early Years specialist) PGCE (4 years ago). Everything else gave me so much stress and anxiety I had a mental breakdown during placement (but at home) and never finished the course. And this was before I had DS. I couldn't imagine trying it again now. I still think leaving it behind was the best decision I ever made.

I was then a TA/LSA until DS7m was born and loved being able to leave my job at the school gate. Pays less, bloody hard work, but so rewarding (most of the time). Don't know if I'll be returning when DS is older (currently contentedly a SAHM looking into WAHM options) but I'm happy to consider it - the hours are very appealing.

There are positive experiences too! I’m a primary school teacher and yes, it’s very hard work a lot of the time. However, I also think you can choose not to allow it to take over your life. I work full time in year 6, teach an hour of booster classes a week and lead a core subject. I get to work at 7:20 and tend to leave by 5 - often 4:30 - apart from one day a week when I am usually there until 6. I don’t work at home in the evenings but usually spend a couple of hours at the weekend working. In the school holidays, it varies. Over Christmas, I spent one afternoon working and I was on holiday for the entire October half term. On the other hand, I have had half terms where I’ve had to work for half the week to catch up due to a busy term at school. I have been teaching for five years and I love my job. I work in a tough and large school with a supportive team and my kids are wonderful. It’s hard work but I wouldn’t do anything else.

You would need good and reliable child care as you will be working long hours during term time. It would also be helpful if your partner had a less demanding job so that they could take on more domestic duties during term time and look after the children if you have to work late. Last term I worked from 8.00 until 8.30 on four occasions.

My normal hours are 8.00 to 5.45. I work through lunch in order to manage this but don't often have to work in the evening. I work for 3 or 4 hours at the weekend and spend at least one day woking for every week of the holidays. I enjoy having the holidays and not having to worry about child care then, but my DC find it hard to understand that I can't be there for them during term time. I work part-time and, like many others, would not be able to manage to work full time so take that into consideration when thinking about your potential salary.

Another word of wisdom from my SLT

Don’t take it too seriously. Its just a job.

Honestly helped me to remember this and I care a lot about my pupils.

I'd say that IF you can get through the first year of training with child care from 7.30am to 6pm minimum (and in the evening and weekends when you're working from home). Then, IF you can get a part time possition in the right school (headteacher and their ethos will make the biggest difference) and IF you are ok with £17k PA (0.5 contract so probably about 25-30hrs per week) then it will be a great job.

I don't have children yet (need IVF but the thought of doing it while full time teaching is something I just can't comprehend at the mo!) But there is no way I will be full time teaching if/when we do have children. Some people manage but god knows how.

I love teaching and could see myself continuing part time from having children to retirement (25 more years!) but am actually making plans to leave. I earn 50k as a head of a large department and it makes me very sad that the only way I could stay teaching is to drop to part time on 19k.

I think so much of it depends on the school you work in tbh. I re-trained as a Primary school teacher (did School Direct) when my youngest started reception. I also have another child a couple of years older. I'm also a lone parent.

The training year was incredibly tough (to the point I contemplated quitting during a hideous placement).

My NQT year was in a great school and I enjoyed it. Year after that - hideous school - hated every second. I'm now in a school where I'm enjoying it again.

I drop my own dcs at wraparound and 7.30 am and collect them at 6pm (usually try and get them by 5pm on Fridays). There's the odd time I have to get later childcare (Parents' evenings etc). I usually work for an hour or so a couple of evenings a week and then about 3-4 hours the weekend. It is exhausting and you do have to have a pretty thick skin to not be ground down by the seemingly constant criticism. The holidays are great though! I work about a week in the 6 weeks and a day or two during other hols (although Whitsun was pretty much spent writing reports).

Do I work harder/longer than in my previous career? Absolutely (and for about a quarter of the salary!!) but I do still love it (mostly!)

Read this: someonesmum.co.uk/2016/03/09/teaching-a-family-unfriendly-profession/

It's hell on earth apparently. I'd think twice. Too many demands and pressure.

Can you do secondary?

Reading all of this primary sounds horrendous. Hats off to all primary teachers.

I did it last year as a single parent (secondary). My DC were 8 and 6 at the time. As a parent I was able to get placements relatively close to home. I now work in a local comprehensive. I get to school at 8 and leave at 5, most evenings I do an hour or so at home after the DC are in bed. It’s hard work but do-able. The PGCE year is all-consuming though and a couple of times I nearly quit but I’m glad I saw it through. Term time is hard work but I’ve just had almost three weeks off with my DC, no other job could give me that. I also love my subject and get a lot of satisfaction from teaching it all day! However I’m thinking about looking for a part time post once I’ve done my NQT year as term time I barely see my DC.

I would make sure you have robust childcare in place and wait until your DC have been in school for a few years if you can. I have a fantastic childminder and I’d be lost without her.

My DH started teacher training on a school direct programme 3 years ago, the week we completed on a house we needed to renovate and 2 weeks before I gave birth to dc1. He worked in a school 4 days a week with increasing classroom responsibilities and was released to uni 1 day a week. He was paid £14k pa, had no tuition fees and came out with a pgce and Qts. That first year was bloody hard work- he barely saw our new baby and was unable to support me at all. He nearly failed his first term, but stuck it out. His first year as an nqt was also tough (though not nearly so bad). He still had to devote 1 day a weekend to schoolwork. He's in his third year teaching now, though, and what a difference! He's in school 7:30 till 4pm. He rarely has any work at home- maybe an hour at a weekend. He gets by doing just enough, and this is supported by the other teachers and leaders at his school. They recently received good with elements of outstanding from Ofsted, and have a happy workforce with a good work life balance. So I would say it isn't all doom and gloom but it was tough to get to this point and probably depends on the school.

It’s very, very tough. If I had my time again I probably wouldn’t do it with young children. I didn’t see my two year old for most of my PGCE year and I still feel awful about that now. The teaching part is amazing- all the other stuff is not.

Do it op! But I wish I’d actually done it when DS was 3/4 and in private nursery which was open 8-6pm, as it was hard him starting school & going to breakfast club & afterschool club, as he really missed out on me picking him up etc.

There will always be some who will tell ypu to never join teaching because it is the worst job ever and the most stressful job in the whole world.
Some live for teachinv and spend 80 hours a week making laminated name tags etc and are professional martyrs.

But in my experience the reality is in tje middle.

Teaching is great. The children are brilliant (even the tricky ones). I can count on one hand the number of students I have genuinely disliked ever. I quite like different topics. I like the variety. Most parents are absolute gems. I think the job is rewarding and like the pastoral element too. Getting involved in whole.school life is a bonus and you really see the kids in a new light.

Some paper work feels like pointless box ticking, morale can be crap at times, workload can be ridiculous. You have to accept that some parents will be vicious and nasty and aggressive and will be utterly unpleasant and take up a disproportionate amount of your time because DC was ONLY doing... and ypu must be the biggest bully on earth (look at some.school threads to see what tjat sort of person is like).

What I would say is that school cultre makes a massive difference. I work a 50 hour week in a happy supportive school with great children, great management and whilst bits of the job piss me off, I think I have a pretty good deal.
Other places I've worked have been hell on earth. SLT have had staff disappear, parents have hounded and bullied staff out of a job, one year I was told thry expected 70% A/A* with a weak group because 'that is what the spreadsheet needs and if we have falling roll that will mean redundancies. You'll be safe in a core subject but we all havr to play our part'. Horrible horrible environment.

As long as you go in with your eyes open and a sensible amount of realism, teaching could be great for you.

I'm currently undertaking a primary pgce and, so far, have found it to be manageable. I have two DCs (9 & 7 years), and am lucky enough to have a very supportive DH (who has a certainly level of flexibility in his job) and in-laws who often collect my kids from school. I think support from your nearest and dearest is crucial; I wouldn't be able to train without this in place.

Before undertaking the pgce, I held a TA role for a few months and this undoubtedly helped in terms of being confident in the classroom and having some understanding of what is expected from the students (and of me as a trainee). When I hear those in education say that teaching is not 'family friendly' I do wonder what sort of jobs they've done previously: I spent more than a decade working in something similar to hospitality (think evening/weekend/bank holiday/school holiday/Christmas working) and although my days spent in uni/school are long and I do have work to complete at home, I am definitely seeing more of my children than I did in my previous job.

Weigh up the pros and cons carefully OP, but if you have a strong support network in place, I'd say go for it. Obviously it's still early days for me, but I'd thought long and hard about heading into teaching and I'm happy with the choice I made.

Sorry it's long(!!) but I hope that helps, and good look with whatever you decide xxx

I would also caution you by saying that I found the pgce quite easy and the nqt year with the lighter timetable containable but then the next year hit like a ton of bricks.

I have said this many times before! I completely agree.

I then actually found the job ok for the next few years after that; I knew what I was doing and where I could cut corners. I enjoyed it.

I think it was about 6-7 years ago that things got properly shit though. It was like frogs in a boiling pot (is that the phrase?!) where things had somehow slowly become unbearable. I’ve always loved the children and the teaching but the ‘other stuff’ in teaching had began to increase exponentially so that the teaching bit was actually only a small part of the job. I almost was wishing 3.20 to come so the children would go away and I could actually start the ‘real’ work-the pointless, horrible time-consuming bits (hours and hours) that made NO difference to my class but that SMT deemed essential this week.

I’m out of it now-I was an excellent graduate and like so many on here, a consistently Outstanding teacher but I left before it broke me. My marriage, health and children were more important, frankly.

It’s often the good teachers who get out first which I have given up explaining to muppets who tell me that Michael Gove did wonders in ‘sorting out education’ by making changes and getting rid of all of the shit teachers!

I cannot stress enough how much I would persuade anyone to steer clear.