Is it appropriate for a university to give out pro-life leaflets

[StealthPolarBear]

I genuinely don't know. Was a bit disappointed

“You presumably don’t regard pro choice literature as propaganda”

What does pro choice literature say? What is its message?

About having an abortion

Why would there be emotion and guilt about removing a few cells?

Washing my face this morning I removed a few cells. It wasn't emotional and I didn't feel guilty. Why would an abortion be any different?

@StealthPolarBear I do think if the pro-life side suggested that abortion leaflets should be binned, leaflets restricted etc that people would find that objectionable.

The purpose of the SPUC leaflets are to promote the idea that as soon as conception occurs that it is a human life and to harm it is very wrong. (They would probably state that in much stronger terms).

Whether you agree with them or not I hope you agree they have a right to that opinion and to share it. It is one shared by many people.

Really mum of 56,? Nice try

“Washing my face this morning I removed a few cells. It wasn't emotional and I didn't feel guilty. Why would an abortion be any different”

Because those cells, in sone circumstances, might become a baby. Some women will feel sadness and regret about that. Others won’t.

Annie:
I'm saying a womsn who is vulnerable and probably upset should not be exposed to propaganda if we can help it.
I too have been called a snowflake and uneducated on this thread, for thinking propaganda aimed at vulnerable women is a bad thing. I truly do not want to take away women's autonomy.

It's got nothing to do with what you want though, that's the thing.

I'm not say you in particular OP but I notice some women seem to put on a front that they're trying to help other women but it's more about trying to validate themselves. They seem to have little confidence in other women in fact.

Last time I read a SPUC leaflet it was full of factual inaccuracies - eg foetuses feel pain long before they've grown any nerve cells let alone a brain to interpret any signals, diagrams showing 'actual size' of embryos of a few weeks that magically look like tiny term babies rather than weird tadpoles, and implication that procedures used for about 2 late-term abortions a year are routine.

Freedom of speech shouldn't mean freedom to lie. I wonder if a gynaecologist could sue them for libel?

“I'm not say you in particular OP but I notice some women seem to put on a front that they're trying to help other women but it's more about trying to validate themselves. They seem to have little confidence in other women in fact.”

Well I have no confidence at all in the goodwill towards women of the men and women of SPUC, and that’s the truth. I want their vile organization wiped off the face of the earth. Please note for the avoidance of doubt, that I said “organization”. Not the “people in the organization.......”

@LipstickHandbagCoffee - the SPUC literature contains outright lies. If pro-choice literature contained lies, then I would also think it has no place being given to a woman dealing with an unplanned pregnancy.

Like some other posters, I struggle with my belief in free speech when it comes to this sort of stuff. Anti-abortion literature that doesn't prey on women in a vulnerable position is fine. However, the tactics they use when they are pretending to offer non-directive counselling are unacceptable to me.

Those claiming to offer financial advice are regulated and none of us seem to have any problems with that. I think it should be similar for this. Yes, allow them to produce literature but require them to be honest and to state that they do not, under any circumstances support abortion. We sometimes have to balance our freedom with limits in order to protect the vulnerable.

Ah but all our critical thinking will sort that out. Which is why propaganda is so unimportant.

Freedom of speech shouldn't mean freedom to lie. The individual should be left to choose what that is though. Many things throughout history have been told to be the truth but are in facts lies.

You simply want to see what you want to see,POV that concur with you
On campus thee should be a range of views, range of literature.even stuff you don’t agree with

Vital but we have the concept of evidence and I think this stuff should aim or expected to be evidence based.

“You simply want to see what you want to see,POV that concur with you
On campus thee should be a range of views, range of literature.even stuff you don’t agree with”

I am assuming you have never seen SPUC literature? Or you have and you are a forced birther too?

I think universities have a responsibility to teach all students that literature of any sort can be biased so they need to critically assess, it would be foolish to pretend everyone is liberal, that no hardcore stances exist. I genuinely think that is the point of university-to get you to engage, think critically and form your own opinion, Right wing thinking should most certainly be studied and critiqued as should hard left and all between so removing leaflets on the assumption someone cannot make up their own mind is censorship and patronising

I think that's unfair actually Bertrand as my op asked a question and I have continually taken on board other views. Maybe I haven't :)

I know you didn't write that BTW

In terms of the original OP for me it's black and white, it's a right to free speech.

In terms of the abortion issue itself I don't think it's something I want to get into online. Your opinion will vary depending on your life experience. Those of us with SN children might have a different view maybe to those who haven't.

The big issue in all of this for me is the society we currently live in is overtly Patriarchal. A lot of the decisions made like austerity, failure to build enough houses, introducing UC, introducing PIP, removing child benefits for the third child, lack of affordable childcare, lack of respite for SN are all damaging to the ability of a woman on her own to keep a child that she might want. In addition to that the lenient sentences for rape and child abuse, the lack of support for the victims and then they let them out early. I think the greatest scandal here are those people who have an abortion not because they want one but because they are forced too, the support in society just isn't there for them to keep a baby.

I don't think that the only danger is someone reading a SPUC leaflet and deciding to not have an abortion. I think that many people are forced into an abortion due to the failure of society as a whole to support them.

Interesting thoughts, good points.

We need to learn to distinguish between the truth and lies ourselves though. Back to the critical thinking again.
I don't think people should be sheltered from the world. It's like on MN, I've been here for years, I never report threads. I don't think it should be censored either.

Do we need to do that when we're young pregnant and vulnerable though

@MynewnameisKy - The purpose of the SPUC leaflets are to promote the idea that as soon as conception occurs that it is a human life and to harm it is very wrong. (They would probably state that in much stronger terms).

If that was what they did, then I would have no issue with it. However, they claim things like abortion causes cancer, all women who have abortions go on to suffer mentally as a result, an abortion will cause a woman to have an increased risk of miscarriage and infertility and other nonsense.

“I think the greatest scandal here are those people who have an abortion not because they want one but because they are forced too, the support in society just isn't there for them to keep a baby.”

What makes you think this happens?

But Marie Stopes, for example, sets out all the options available to pregnant women in a factual, unemotional way

You're pregnancy will be terminated and the foetus will be put in an unlidded bin the the corner of the room.

We had have 373 failed abortions at clinics over a two months period.

Sone of our clinics ignored advice from inspectors to be trained about female genital mutilation, child sexual exploitation, and anti-radicalisation schemes.

Our staff, some of whom are unregistered nurses may persuade vuleranble adults and those under 18 to terminate as our staff get bonuses for reaching our termination targets.