Is it appropriate for a university to give out pro-life leaflets

[StealthPolarBear]

I genuinely don't know. Was a bit disappointed

Margaret, I said no woman would be swayed to proceed with an UNWANTED pregnancy having clapped eyes on that leaflet.
Not every woman is pro-choice. There will be some who will agree with the pro-life school of thought, believe it or not.

Right, but that leaflet isn't aimed at persuading women who have already ruled out abortion. So, again, why do they make them if they never 'work'?

"We are all capable of critical thinking and making decisions for ourselves."
Are we? That's very naive and blinkered

@Anniethinggose - picking up a leaflet is not going to the result in a woman going ahead with a pregnancy. However, the danger is if she believes she is going to get non-directive counselling, and that is what they masquerade as, she will be put under huge pressure, using lies and emotional blackmail, to make a decision that may not be the best one for her at that point in time. A woman with an unplanned pregnancy, particularly a young woman without a decent support network, is very vulnerable and expecting her to be at the top of her game in terms of critical thinking at that time is unrealistic.

The fact that these people say that telling people "here are the options, here are the facts around them, and you can choose what's best for you, bearing in mind these constaints and time limitations" is wildly partisan says everything really.

The absolute refusal to acknowledge the enormous risks associated with pregnancy and birth just goes to show how much they hate women and see them as nothing more than disposable baby vessels.

If you do not believe any pregnant women should be forced to carry to term and to give birth then you are pro choice. By definition.

Yes theymaemejoin, pro life "councelling services" were clobbered a little while ago for pretending to be neutral when they had a massive agenda.

They were telling women that if they had an abortion they would get cancer etc.

upabitlate I've also been on their website just now. I think my 'favourite' bit is when they refer to research on embryos of up to 14 days post conception as 'embryo abuse' and say that 'The human embryo is discriminated against based on his/her size'.

2016 Ireland:

"A Dublin-based pregnancy counselling centre has been secretly recorded advising that abortions cause breast cancer and can turn women into child abusers.

A counsellor at the clinic, which is unregulated under Irish law, was filmed giving advice to an undercover Times reporter that was described as dangerous, outrageous and inaccurate by the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists.

The Women’s Centre on Berkeley Street in Dublin 7 advertises itself as an impartial source of advice for women who want to travel to the UK to access an abortion but has direct links to a Catholic anti-abortion group. It claims to have clinics in Cork, Galway, Sligo, London and Bristol.

The reporter was shown pictures of aborted foetuses and had her mental state questioned when she indicated…" rest is paywalled Times

I agree that the language used by SPUC is disgusting, and so guilt inducing, I'm no way justifying that. But it isn't fair to suggest that all those who oppose abortion hate women, the two don't necessarily go hand in hand. A lot feel that they're helping women to see that there is an alternative to abortion, because some are pressured by partners or family.

Sadly the root of their opposition goes back to the RC church, though, in a lot of cases, and RC theology does have a very negative view of women, because it teaches that woman led man into sin (Adam and Eve), and original sin is passed through sex. So sex has to be only for pro-creation and the idea of a woman controlling her fertility goes very much against that. It's very much ingrained in their psyche.

But those who run the helplines for Life and speak to women with crisis pregnancies don't hate women, they want to support them. One-sided definitely, but not because they hate women.

Margaret "size discrimination" hahahaahahhahaah brilliant.

They really are dicks, sadly very very dangerous ones.

I think it works both ways. I had my first child at a young age and was less educated but if I'd read a lot of pro-choice material I might've aborted him?
I'm pro-choice. But there exists two perspectives: each one might view the other argument as propaganda but censorship is fascist. I can't condone fascism.

Stealth, so you don't believe women can make decisions for themselves? You think it's naive to think so?
I'm already frightened at the times we are living in with the erosion of women's rights. Yet here you are telling me that women cannot think for themselves and ridiculing me for believing so. Scary stuff indeed.

@Anniethinggose puts it perfectly.

@UpABitLate In a part of the UK (Northern Ireland) there is no legal abortion, none in cases of a non viable foetus, none in cases of Rape / incest etc

This is the case because the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted for political parties who had this in their manifesto (including women). While their is some campaign for change here it isn't very high profile. There are no plans as far as I know to change this. A lot of people continue to be opposed to abortion here and they have that democratic right.

So while you talk about countries where abortion is illegal and the lack of human rights for women in those countries don't forget that this includes a part of the UK.

The DUP are a party that props up the current government of the UK. When they initially signed the deal with the Tories there was a lot if interest in them. People were concerned that they would seek to change the abortion laws in England but now that it's clear they won't nobody is too interested in what's happening in NI. Clearly most people in England are happy with this.

I believe in Freedom of speech. SPUC are entitled to their leaflets, as are Marie Stopes etc if you are pro choice let all the choices be available.

“Stealth, so you don't believe women can make decisions for themselves? You think it's naive to think so?“

I think women can be made to feel very unhappy by the crap these leaflets peddle. And if they weren’t intended to influence women’s decisions, why are they produced?

@Anniethinggose - most pro-choice organisations and literature are about helping a woman make the choice that is right for her. That choice may be be continue with the pregnancy or to abort. Either option is supported.

SPUC and their ilk are about preventing abortion at all costs. Lies and misinformation are simply tools they use to achieve that aim. They see only one acceptable outcome to an unplanned pregnancy.

Anniethinggose I agree.

“ believe in Freedom of speech. SPUC are entitled to their leaflets, as are Marie Stopes etc if you are pro choice let all the choices be available”

But Marie Stopes, for example, sets out all the options available to pregnant women in a factual, unemotional way. Designed to help a pregnant woman make an informed choice.
What s the purpose of the SPUC leaflets?

You're being ridiculous. I'm saying a womsn who is vulnerable and probably upset should not be exposed to propaganda if we can help it.
If that frightens you then a lot must scare you.

We are all capable of critical thinking and making decisions for ourselves."
Are we? That's very naive and blinkered So a person shouldn't be able to make their own decision, you want someone or something else to make it for them.

Please don't try and entice me into a personal argument with you, Stealth.
I gave my opinion and I'm glad to see some people think I made a valid point.
There are a few threads running about the frightening events recently to do with the utter indifference towards women in this patriarchal society.
You may mock me, but in doing so you are minimising and doing a disservice to feminism, and insulting others, too.

Excuse me? I'm addressing your points.

OK remove any reflection of my frustration and read my last post..

You’re also being ridiculous op if you cant tolerate a range of literature on campus
And yes to you it’s propaganda, however because you don’t agree with content you would say that
You presumably don’t regard pro choice literature as propaganda

No Vitalogy. I want them to make their own decision based on evidence and their feelings, free of influence from people with any agenda that doesn't involve supporting that woman to make her own mind up

Does that make sense?