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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is it appropriate for a university to give out pro-life leaflets

577 replies

StealthPolarBear · 04/01/2018 15:50

I genuinely don't know. Was a bit disappointed

OP posts:
Coconutspongexo · 05/01/2018 09:46

Think we should refer to them as foetuses instead of using emotive language such as babies.

Marie stopes isn’t the only place to have an abortion, people can choose elsewhere.

Lizzie48 · 05/01/2018 09:59

Drippingmytoesin, do you realise that the word 'foetus' actually means offspring? It doesn't dehumanise the unborn baby at all. Calling it an unborn baby is merely stating what it actually is. And a woman who miscarries very much thinks of it as an unborn baby that she's lost.

I'm not saying that that means that abortion is wrong. But whether we call it a 'foetus' or an 'unborn baby' actually makes no difference to the debate.

Bekabeech · 05/01/2018 10:09

All the Universities I attended and worked at had lots of "unauthorised" posters and leaflets. And so does the University that I most often visit. Now some that seem offensive might be quickly torn down or removed.
However on a table with other leaflets, one such as in the OP is not obvious and could well remain until someone removes it.

I know plenty of people who stick posters to lamp posts, fliers under car windscreens, or cover up copies of the Mail with the European - and this in a pretty middle class market town. Just because a University cannot afford many notice boards and keeps them for authorised notices, does not mean that students and student groups will not publicise their views including flouting the rules.

specialsubject · 05/01/2018 10:13

Ah, spuc. Protection of the unborn. Zero help after birth, you are on your own then.

Also pro suffering as they are anti euthanasia too. May they reap what they sow when they find out that many conditions do not have palliative care.

HermionesRightHook · 05/01/2018 10:21

I can guarantee that the uni didn't put these out. We are constantly coming across all sorts of bollocks on noticeboards, on tables, in the libraries, that are just left there by sales teams, students that don't know you're supposed to ask permission, and weird little offensive culty groups on the wrong side of history as in this case.

The University will be completely neutral on abortion and will be shit hot on critical thinking skills and accurate provision of information so will not want those leaflets there.

(side note - I got sent a free unsolicited copy of a creationist science text book for my library once. It was hilarious, but it went in the bin like a this guff does.)

Coconutspongexo · 05/01/2018 10:35

I’m fully aware what the word foetus means but when talking about abortions it’s common for pro lifers to use to word baby to lead to emotion and guilt

BertrandRussell · 05/01/2018 10:38

“But whether we call it a 'foetus' or an 'unborn baby' actually makes no difference to the debate“

Yes it does.

Lizzie48 · 05/01/2018 10:42

Even if the word 'foetus' actually means 'offspring'??? It's a word that's bandied about where no one really knows what it means!!

BertrandRussell · 05/01/2018 10:43

God, I hate wide eyed disingenuousness.

Lizzie48 · 05/01/2018 10:48

I'm just getting sick of the words 'foetus' and 'unborn baby' getting constantly argued about. People can call it what they want to, 'foetus' is an unborn baby and that's all there is to it. Pretending it's not alive when a woman is 8 months pregnant and suddenly becomes alive when it comes out, that's what's disingenuous.

That's why there needs to be a legal limit, which in this country is 24 weeks.

Mumof56 · 05/01/2018 10:50

Dippingmytoesin

I’m fully aware what the word foetus means but when talking about abortions it’s common for pro lifers to use to word baby to lead to emotion and guilt

Emotion and guilt about what?

Lizzie48 · 05/01/2018 10:52

And you don't think those arguing for the pro choice position are doing the same, Dippingmytoesin? You use the word 'foetus' to justify your own position.

BertrandRussell · 05/01/2018 10:55

“People can call it what they want to, 'foetus' is an unborn baby and that's all there is to it. Pretending it's not alive when a woman is 8 months pregnant and suddenly becomes alive when it comes out, that's what's disingenuous.”

Do you have any idea how many late term abortions there are and the reasons for them?

BertrandRussell · 05/01/2018 10:57

“Emotion and guilt about what?”

About having an abortion.

BertrandRussell · 05/01/2018 10:58

“And you don't think those arguing for the pro choice position are doing the same,”

They don’t have to. Pro choice means that. Choice. No need for emotional manipulation.

Lizzie48 · 05/01/2018 11:00

Yes I do know, mostly when there's something wrong with the foetus (all right, I'm not debating that point any more). I have no issue with that. But if you're arguing that the foetus isn't a baby yet, then you still have the question as to when the change happens. If a baby is born prem, as my DD2 and my DNiece were, they are very much alive when they're born.

I think the cut off at 24 weeks is reasonable, as that's when babies can survive outside the uterus.

theymademejoin · 05/01/2018 11:12

agree that this sort of thing shouldn't be hidden or dressed up as advice but perhaps if people were more tolerant of other people's views then they wouldn't have to

I can only assume you have never personally encountered a member of SPUC then? They're not exactly known for their tolerance or respect for the pro-choice view.

MargaretCavendish · 05/01/2018 11:33

And a woman who miscarries very much thinks of it as an unborn baby that she's lost.

Some do, some don't. I was really upset by my three miscarriages, but I call them lost pregnancies, not lost babies. They were all quite early - before 10 weeks, just like 80% of abortions.

UpABitLate · 05/01/2018 11:56

" babies can survive outside the uterus"

There's always this invisibilisation of the woman.

Pictures of foetuses that look like term pregnancies floating in space, the woman entirely absent.

The physical and emotional costs of pregnancy and childbirth are entirely overlooked, disregarded, up to and including risk of death.

In countries with total bans on abortion, women can be imprisoned for miscarrying, and the death and serious injury rate from illegal abortion is through the roof. Women and children who do not want / cannot cope with a baby are forced to carry to term and give birth. These countries are often ones where being an unmarried mother carries a huge stigma and there is little resource against male sexual violence.

The fact is that these ideas are based in a fundamental hatred of women and desire to control them. The fact of what countries that ban abortion actually look like for women, show that up pretty clearly. The woman's life is worth less than that of a non viable first trimester foetus. (Or is it still an embryo then?).

In the UK the VAST majority of abortions are carried out before 13 weeks so any pictures showing fully developed babies are indeed the emotive bollocks that others have pointed to - this is not FACTUAL. That is not what a 13 week old (or younger) foetus looks like.

SPUC are scum anyway.

Anniethinggose · 05/01/2018 11:56

It seems fine to me.
Women should not be infantilised. We are all capable of critical thinking and making decisions for ourselves. There is a wealth of information out there. No woman is going to be swayed into going ahead with an unwanted pregnancy because she picked up one particular leaflet, no matter how stressed or vulnerable. How patronising.

MargaretCavendish · 05/01/2018 11:58

No woman is going to be swayed into going ahead with an unwanted pregnancy because she picked up one particular leaflet, no matter how stressed or vulnerable. How patronising.

Then why do you think SPUC make the leaflets, if 'no woman' would ever be affected by them?

UpABitLate · 05/01/2018 11:59

Just looking at SPUC website

They go one better than referring to embryos as babies - they refer to them as children

"Tragically, more than 8.4 million unborn children have lost their lives in Britain to this Abortion Act - Abortion is the biggest killer of children in the world today. We work to protect human lives at the national and local level, and to build a society free from abortion."

BakedBeans47 · 05/01/2018 12:01

When I was at Glasgow Uni in the 90s they had a pro life society who used to hand out leaflets.

I am vehemently pro choice but it was easy enough to ignore them or refuse to take their leaflets. They’re entitled to take an anti abortion stance, so long as they’re not ramming it down people’s throats I don’t see it’s inappropriate.

BertrandRussell · 05/01/2018 12:04

“o woman is going to be swayed into going ahead with an unwanted pregnancy because she picked up one particular leaflet,“

Possibly not. But she might well delay. And might well be made to feel like crap. Which is, of course, SPUC’s aim.

UpABitLate · 05/01/2018 12:04

"It seems fine to me.
Women should not be infantilised. We are all capable of critical thinking and making decisions for ourselves"

OK so this goes against everyone else in the world who is worried about people being fed misinformation, "false news" and so on.

The only group where it is fine to tell lies and say it is truth is when talking to pregnant women about abortion. To do otherwise would be to infantilise them.

The other point here is that university aside, lots of people in society aren't super clever with a high level reading age and the ability/time/energy to sift through conflicting information and carry out independent fact finding exercises.

To say this infantilises women is to totally overlook the fact of what a society of all sorts of people looks like. To only cater to certain sectors, and the rest well who cares, is a very elitist view.