To refuse to travel with work?

[GerddwrEryri]

I've just started a new contract at the same company I've worked at for a few years. Nothing in my contract has been mentioned about travelling nor was this mentioned when I took got pushed into the job. First day back after the new year on Tuesday I was told I'd be travelling in a few weeks. One of our other sites has a system they use that my line manager wants to implement here, hence wanting me to go over and see it.

I have depression and anxiety. I really don't do well travelling. I'm bad enough travelling with people I know and love let alone travelling with work.

AIBU to refuse and can they make me?

They probably know I have a passport tbh as I went away with DP late last year and like tangled says it's easily rectifiable.

No mention at all tangled but one of the things I did check was whether my probationary period would restart and it did not.

It sounds like it would be a one off. You’d be going to see a system there he wants to implement here, it’s not like you’re going to see clients or something else that would be ongoing. Could you manage this once knowing that?

Or, could you say ‘That sounds like a lot of unnecessary expense & time out of the office when we could do it via Skype’.

No one can make you go, but whether it’s in your contract or not, you’ve been asked to go and you either need to make alternative arrangement (Skype) or be seen as unwilling to do what’s necessary IF he’s not the sort of person who you could talk to about your anxiety.

Is there anyone in HR you could discuss this with? Someone you trust who could speak on your behalf?

I have the same issues and I'd really struggle with this too. But then again, I'd also need assistance saying something to my boss too.

How about saying you're not available. You already have commitments outside of work time?

Is it a day trip?

As an employer I would be massively unimpressed with your approach of no-ambition therefore no interest in travelling to see this, but more sympathetic to an honest discussion about MH issues.

It isn't an unreasonable request, surely, to go and scope out a system in a sister site?

Long and short of it was "take this other role within the company or we no longer have a need for you" which sadly ACAS confirmed they are well within their legal rights to do.

I was told very much the same thing in a previous role, in similar circumstances. They refused to discuss a redundancy payout and said my only options were this new role or I could just leave.

The justification for me no longer being needed in my existing role was threadbare at best. I got an employment lawyer involved who pointed all this out, and the company quietly paid me a severance. Might be worth you speaking to one? I can PM you the details of mine.

The travelling: see what ACAS say but, having said what I've just said above, maybe don't take them as gospel. Again, a lawyer may be able
to advise you on this.

I really wish our HR department understood and were helpful but they are the most useless group of HR people I have ever had the misfortune of working with.

Annie I'm also partially worried about setting a precedent. If I go this time they'll not understand why i have an issue next time. The new system implementation was only part of the reason. Basically we have a system we need to train them in, they have a system they need to train us in. But my line manager was originally brought onto the project to deal with this sort of thing which is why I assumed I wouldn't have to travel- especially given that it's something I thought they would've mentioned.

Interesting question about if it's travel or be fired - surely they can't do that if it's not in my contract?

In that case I'd go with AnnieAnoniMouse suggestion and suggest a Skype conference instead or just make up personal commitments that mean you can't leave the country during X dates, although they may offer to reschedule in that scenario unless it's time sensitive so may not help.

Did you declare your mental health problems when you started? This could give you protection.

Division I can understand not being impressed with lack of ambition but if you pushed somebody into a role they'd expressly said previously they never wanted, would you still expect them to be massively enthusiastic about it all?

It wouldn't be a day trip. It would be a good few days, possibly a week.

Rhiannon yeah they didn't even mention severance package or anything. But if it's a case of No longer needing the role, do they need to or can they just terminate the contract?

I think you need an honest conversation. Is this likely to be a one off or will it be a regular thing? I guess your contract may have enough ambiguity in it for them to make an issue about it. But if this is likely to be a one off, and can't be done any other way (e.g. video link, webinar etc) I'd be inclined to try and manage it.

I had a similar issue with what my company deemed "reasonable" travel and what I did. I worked part time and finished for school pick up. They wanted me to visit another site (by plane) once a week. I said I'd do it once a month as I A: Struggled to get childcare and B: The cost of childcare was not in my budget since I'd deliberately cut my hours in order to avoid that cost.

In the end I went/attempted to go 3 times. First time I got diverted to another airport and by the time I got to the office I could only stay an hour before heading back to the airport. The second time my flight down was cancelled and therefore there was no point going down. The 3rd time I was delayed on the way back because of a cancelled flight and ended up having to stay overnight. I refused to continue and they agreed it wasn't practical. I moved to another team after that.

You can always point out that the cost of travel is high and you'd like to try to manage without travel?

Tenerife yes I did. We had a pre work medical and I told the GP but as it was outsourced most of the information didn't get passed on unless they thought it would directly impact the ability to do ones job - which at the time it didn't as I had no reason in my previous role to need to travel

Interesting question about if it's travel or be fired - surely they can't do that if it's not in my contract?

I suspect they could change the terms of your contract to include reasonable business travel within the remit of your new role and push you into a situation whereby you either accept occasional travel as part of the role or losing your job. I guess it depends how reasonable management are and whether they feel this should be part of your current role.

As a manager I wouldn't have any issue with someone who didn't want to move up as long as they were good in the role they were doing. It's a good thing to have competent stable staff. If that meant a bit of compromise re travel then I'd work something out for that too.

A team all full of ambitious people isn't the best ime.

I think perhaps you should have a word with your union rep, or maybe seek independent advice from someone you can go into more detail with (not a good idea to give identifying work details online, obviously).

I appreciate you are working on your MH issues but from what you have said there is a high risk of your managers percieving you as an obstructive, lazy whiner and I wonder if the reason for this change in roles has been down to what you call a 'lack of ambition' and they might have seen as a reason to try to manage you out, because they need someone more proactive. (I am not saying you are lazy, but it sounds like you may not be that suited to your job.)

OP, I don't know for sure, but I think if a role is made redundant a company needs to either offer an equivalent and suitable alternative role or pay redundancy money.

For my case the bones of contention were that the new role offered wasn't suitable and that my existing role wasn't actually made redundant.

I really don't know in your case. I'd very strongly advise you to have at least an initial talk to a lawyer.

I've been the person who has ended up doing the travel when the person who was supposed to go refused. (I've no idea why they refused to go.) Obviously they couldn't be forced, and the work still had to be done, so I ended up taking on this part of someone else's job as well as my own. I ended up being quite resentful of the other person, as it added a significant amount of work to my job, and one overnight stay in another European city every month. Would this happen to one of your colleagues if you don't go?

Realistically and I hope you don't mind me saying as you have put this in ABIU - this is not want employers want to hear. You seem to be OK going on holiday but wont go for what might well be a one off business trip.

To be really frank if you don't want to travel then get a lesser job and leave this one.

Sorry but working nowadays is hard enough without all of this. I work with someone who wont attend meetings if she doesn't have childcare. It means the rest of us need to take the slack.

missbattenburg you sound like a super lovely boss.

I'm sorry to say this but you should go.
Even though you felt pushed into this new role, this is what is expected of you in this role.
Yes, you should be enthusiastic you accepted the job.
You could have left if you didn't want to progress your career.

Employers cannot expect you to spend your evenings and nights away from home unless it's in your contact.

I think they could insist if it's part of some kind of training or implementation of new equipment. You can still say no and see what they do about it. . If you are in a Union have a word with them. Not everybody is free to travel if they have caring responsibilities and especially if this wasn't in your contract. Depends on the level of your job I suppose as to what is expected of you.

Hillingdon, You seem to be OK going on holiday but the OP says she struggles with 'travelling with people I know and love let alone travelling with work.'

It would be different if the OP had taken on the job knowing it involved travel and knowing that she wouldn't like it/be able to cope with it, but that isn't the case.

So you declare MH issues when you applied for the job. Did this mention anxiety, especially social anxiety? If so, did they refer you to Occupational Therapy?

You really need to consider whether the issue is to do with your anxiety, ie, you really don't think you can do it at all as likely to get a panic attack, or is it more that you just don't want a job that involves travel?

Firstly, yes, they can ask you to travel and no it doesn't need to be explicit in your current contract as contracts can be amended and such things added, all legal as long as 'reasonable' and this would likely pass the test of reasonability (assuming they are paying all expenses of course).

Your best course of action is to have a pleasant, non defensive chat with your boss and explain how you didn't expect to have to travel, that it makes you feel very uncomfortable due to your anxieties. You need him to clarify if it's likely to be a one off or very occasional (in which case, maybe you could consider it?), or whether it is indeed part of the job, in which case, you need to ask to be referred to Occ Health. They will then do an assessment and from there, decide whether they take that part out of your job, move you to another job, or decide that as you can't do the job and there is no alternative, they have to let you go.

Frankly, unless your boss shows total sympathy and support, I would start looking for another job as it is likely not to go forward in a way that will satisfy you.

Sounds like they've made your old role redundant and offered this as viable alternative but it's not suitable if travel element non-negotiable.

Even if they've not said, you get a month trial. You can request they look for something else or take redundancy.