To have said that he needs to do something about seeing his children?

[QueenAmongstMen]

AIBU to have told my friend that her partner has got to do something to ensure he sees his children?

I have a very good friend who is in a LTR with a really lovely guy, they've been together about 3 years now and are very happy.

The guy has been married before and has a son and a daughter. He and his Ex-wife have been separated for coming up 7 years now and she is also in a LTR (though a volatile one) and she recently had twins with her new partner.

The problem is that there are no formal contact arrangements in place and his Ex is very controlling about when he can see his children. She often tells him she will bring them over on 'X' date and then just doesn't show up. She refused to let him see them over Christmas, which she does every year, and it is now almost three weeks since she has allowed contact. On previous occasions she has withheld contact for up to 7 weeks. She picks and chooses when he can see the children and it's really upsetting for him and the children. There have been ongoing issues where the school have had concerns about how his Ex cares for the children and Social Services have been involved.

My friends partner has found the withholding of contact harder and harder and it's worrying her, and us, how low he is becoming. I saw him briefly on Christmas morning when I dropped some presents off and he looked like a broken man because all he wanted was to see his children.

I have met the Ex a few times and she gives the impression that she doesn't want the father seeing the children because she doesn't like them being around my friend - this is despite the fact she lives with someone else and has recently had the twins with him.

A common pattern in the past has been that when things are good between her and her partner she allows the father to see his children, but if she and her partner are going through a bad patch (they've split up a few times) she then withholds contact.

My friend's partner is not in a well paying job and between that, his household bills and his child maintenance he cannot afford legal advice or afford to take legal action to formalise contact so he sadly is at his Ex's mercy and she knows this.

The children are really lovely and it's clear they have such a good relationship with their dad and the whole situation just seems so wrong.

Anyway, today me and my friend got into an argument over it because I told her that surely there must be something her partner can do and there should be no excuse for this to be happening. My friend then started shouting at me, repeating that he is against a wall because of his finances, asking if I was accusing him of not caring about his children (I wasn't at all) and that I didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

I felt really bad afterwards because she was genuinely upset but I just can't see how this is allowed to happen. Did I step out of line? Surely there must be something he can do?

You seem very involved in their families.
I'm sure you mean well but this simply isn't any of your concern.

Your friend has made it your business by telling you all the details. Yanbu to be worried for him. He really needs to find the cash for a solicitor
Before long he won't be a man she recognises and they won't last long imo/e.

Ah. the same old story: controlling evil woman, poor man who would love to see his children but has excuses for why he can't do anything about it. It's almost as if men don't want to accept any responsibility for a lack of contact with their children, isn't it?

Really is none of your business and I think from the outside it can look so easy.

Even if he went to court, if she wanted to, she could totally fuck him in the ass. So then he'd be fucked in the ass, emotionally broken AND have spent lots of money for the privilege.

Why has he not yet been to court to get court ordered contact?

He could go to court and formalise arrangements.

He told my friend that he can't afford to go to court. I've no idea how much it costs or the financial implications though so to be honest I probably shouldn't have said anything.

I just hate seeing him look so sad and my friend look so helpless

@peppa, before my DH’s best friend got divorced, I’d have said exactly the same as you. BUT he now has been prevented from seeing his children for 4 years. He’s been back and forth to court so, so many times. He’s 60k in debt in legal fees and has now had to enter into an IVA with various credit card companies (because he started putting his legal costs on his CC in desperation). The Court has ordered that he’s entitled to access to his children on multiple occasions but the day after the order, his ex raises another issue and the whole process starts again.

Before this happened, I thought Fathers4Justice were a bunch of DV apologist douches; now I completely understand why they exist and what they’re fighting against (although I’m sure there’s a decent number of thundercunts in their ranks).

He’s now given up because he simply can’t afford to carry on, which is what his ex (and the OPs subject) was banking on. All he does now is buys Christmas and birthday presents for his two daughters, puts them to one side and hopes they’ll choose to contact him via Facebook or other social media when they’re old enough. It’s bloody tragic and shameful.

OP, it sounds like you touched a sore point and you’re absolutely right that he should lawyer up if he can, but if our friends experience is anything to go by that might still be money wasted in the face of a determined and spiteful ex. I wish him all the luck in the world.

Oh I'm not saying it never happens. But I know for a fact that many men paint that picture with no basis. And the new wife believes it until its her turn.....

True, but really it pains me to say that the stereotype of the spiteful mum using her children as pawns also happens. Probably a lot less often than your stereotype (or so I’d like to believe) but it still does.

I’m inclined to believe OP’s friend on this one.

If he was that bothered he'd go to court to sort out his parental responsibility, and contact. If he's not done so then he's not that bothered is he. Whatever the case tho, it's between him, his ex, his current. Not you.

As in he's (apparently) been to court so you say but some sounds a bit far fetched re why he isn't continuing. My BILresolved a similar situation last year, and now has contact despite ex wife being very difficult, including at one time letting him have DCs then ringing police to say they'd been kidnapped as he was 7 minutes late returning them.

He didn't give up tho

Well thankfully my friend, and others in the circle, have witnessed her behaviour and it's certainly malicious.

A few months ago it was his son's birthday and my friend and the father had organised a little party as his Ex had said she'd bring the children over. We all sat there waiting and they didn't turn up. The father tried ringing his Ex but she wouldn't answer. He then text her to ask where they were and she simply replied "They aren't coming. I've changed my mind." It was just awful and he was on the brink of tears. He ended up just walking out the house whilst the rest of us cleared away all the party stuff.

She does things like that all the time. I've seen countless texts on his mobile where they make arrangements, she agrees a set day and time and then she just doesn't bother turning up and says she forgot, or her plans changed, or she got the date mixed up etc. She does it time and time again.

He said he just doesn't know what to do anymore and he's scared that his Ex is bad mouthing him to the children and letting them believe the reason there's no contact is his fault when in reality it's the mother that is stopping it.

He said he feels like all he can do is wait until they're of an age where they can make their own minds up and make the decision themselves to contact him and hope that their relationships can survive this.

It costs £215 to make an application to court, no other fees unless he chooses to instruct a solicitor. He can fill in the form himself, it's pretty straightforward to fill it in, just basic information. He can get the form online or from the court. He doesn't need a solicitor. Lots of people go to court without a solicitor & the judges are generally sympathetic and understanding.

mistress - he's never been to Court as he says he cannot afford legal advice/legal action.

His monthly pay isn't great and it all goes on his household bills and child maintenance.

Are there any agencies that could help him free of charge or at reduced rates?

Thank you Alicat!!!!!!

If she is that unhinged why isn't he petitioning to have them live with him instead and she's the NRP with EOW access?

In any case, it isn't actually your business. Sounds like your friend was venting and needed vague sympathetic noises not a lecture on what her partner should be doing.

Runrabbit - he has told my friend he that if he could he'd apply for full residency but continues to say that he couldn't afford any legal bills.

As mentioned above the Court fee is £215. He can make an application for a fee exemption if his income is low and he has less than £3,000 in savings. The form is EX160.

He needs to attend mediation first and if his income is low he will qualify for legal aid for that. If mediation is unsuitable / unsuccessful the mediation company will sign page 19 of the court application form (C100) .

The C100 is not a difficult form to complete but if he has any concerns he could either try the charity Families Need Fathers to see if they have a meeting in his local area (they often have free advice legal advice clinics during their meetings or at least they do here in Wales) or if he lives in a major city he could check if his local court have a ‘support unit’ who can’t offer legal advice but can help with form filling. They can also attend hearings to offer moral support in some cases.

£215 to make an application for a court order, he can be a litigant in person- represent himself rather than instruct a solicitor to act on his behalf- and if likes he can also have someone to be his Mackenzie Friend to sit with him and provide moral support. If he does take it to court tell him to dress smart; my OH always wore a suit to his family court proceeding even though they are very relaxed and the judge was suitably impressed.

Thank you urban and legally - that's really helpful information, it's much appreciated.

urban - what is mediation? As in him and his Ex having a meeting?

It’s a requirement now that before you attend court you have to try mediation (the correct term is a MIAM).

You can google mediators in your area and just call them Up to make an appointment. You then go in for an appointment to discuss your case and find out how mediation works.

The mediators then contact the other parent to invite them in for an appointment. If they refuse or don’t respond then the mediator just signs the necessary court application form. If they do attend if one party qualifies for legal aid both parties are usually entitled to 3 free sessions.

The mediator will try and help the parents reach an agreement to allow the children to spend time with the non resident parent. The idea is that an agreement is more likely to work than a court order that one parent maybe unhappy with. The problem is a mediated agreement is not legally binding and she could keep messing him about.

I think he's just so worried about making the situation worse that he doesn't know what to do.

He won't move in with my friend because he's scared that if he does then his Ex will put an end to contact for good.