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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have said that he needs to do something about seeing his children?

59 replies

QueenAmongstMen · 03/01/2018 22:16

AIBU to have told my friend that her partner has got to do something to ensure he sees his children?

I have a very good friend who is in a LTR with a really lovely guy, they've been together about 3 years now and are very happy.

The guy has been married before and has a son and a daughter. He and his Ex-wife have been separated for coming up 7 years now and she is also in a LTR (though a volatile one) and she recently had twins with her new partner.

The problem is that there are no formal contact arrangements in place and his Ex is very controlling about when he can see his children. She often tells him she will bring them over on 'X' date and then just doesn't show up. She refused to let him see them over Christmas, which she does every year, and it is now almost three weeks since she has allowed contact. On previous occasions she has withheld contact for up to 7 weeks. She picks and chooses when he can see the children and it's really upsetting for him and the children. There have been ongoing issues where the school have had concerns about how his Ex cares for the children and Social Services have been involved.

My friends partner has found the withholding of contact harder and harder and it's worrying her, and us, how low he is becoming. I saw him briefly on Christmas morning when I dropped some presents off and he looked like a broken man because all he wanted was to see his children.

I have met the Ex a few times and she gives the impression that she doesn't want the father seeing the children because she doesn't like them being around my friend - this is despite the fact she lives with someone else and has recently had the twins with him.

A common pattern in the past has been that when things are good between her and her partner she allows the father to see his children, but if she and her partner are going through a bad patch (they've split up a few times) she then withholds contact.

My friend's partner is not in a well paying job and between that, his household bills and his child maintenance he cannot afford legal advice or afford to take legal action to formalise contact so he sadly is at his Ex's mercy and she knows this.

The children are really lovely and it's clear they have such a good relationship with their dad and the whole situation just seems so wrong.

Anyway, today me and my friend got into an argument over it because I told her that surely there must be something her partner can do and there should be no excuse for this to be happening. My friend then started shouting at me, repeating that he is against a wall because of his finances, asking if I was accusing him of not caring about his children (I wasn't at all) and that I didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

I felt really bad afterwards because she was genuinely upset but I just can't see how this is allowed to happen. Did I step out of line? Surely there must be something he can do?

OP posts:
Rainbowqueeen · 03/01/2018 23:36

He should bite the bullet and go to court.

The Courts recognise that it is important for kids to have a relationship with both parents unless there is a good reason why not.

He can use the texts etc as evidence.

it sounds scary to self represent but its really not as bad as you might think. I work in a court (different area) and the judges do try to make things as easy on people who self-represent as they can.

it sounds like his ex will not react well but it cant be any worse than it is now.

UrbanSunday · 03/01/2018 23:37

Feel free to p.m me with your local area (not asking for any personal details!) and I will find you the name and number of your local mediator with a legal aid contract.

TheOrigBrave · 04/01/2018 07:13

He can self represent for a few hundred £, plus mediation costs (variable).

How old are the children?

Courts generally favour children having contact with both parents.

TheOrigBrave · 04/01/2018 07:15

nb I self represented and ex hired a barrister. That was intimidating but the barrister was there to try and reach a good outcome, not screw over the other parent (me).

peppapigwouldmakelovelyrashers · 04/01/2018 07:24

so he's so utterly devastated byt the lack of contact that he hasn't even googled to find out that you don't even need a legal professional to go to court?

It's all a bit "I've tried nothing man and I'm all out of ideas" isn't it?

Yes, women do sometimes prevent contact,but men also can't be fucked to actually do anything about it other than complain to others. I imagine he has a phone and could have found out all the procedures in 10 mins flat if he had a mind to. Clearly he does not.

SootyandMathew · 04/01/2018 07:31

My DF never applied for contact with me and used the he couldn't afford it excuse.

In my mind it's always been clear that if he really wanted to he would have found the money. I cannot and will not accept his excuse.

Sleephead1 · 04/01/2018 07:43

I think he has to try court at least he can always say he tried everything. He can self represent and I believe mediation is a couple of hundred. My friend has just done this and they do charge for it but you are asked to do this before going to court to see if you can resolve it. If his ex sees he's serious then maybe she will be open to some kind of resolution?

ohreallyohreallyoh · 04/01/2018 07:54

There is a ton of information (not all good or correct, however) at your finger tips using google. There isn’t much law in child contact -plenty of people use the court system without legal advice. He would know this if he bothered to look. Perhaps what is really stressing out your friend is that she is with a man who simply isn’t that bothered.

AmaraSas · 04/01/2018 08:08

I didnt read the whole thread so forgive me if this has already been said. Some practical advise I hope...

  1. you are entitled to 30 minutes free legal counsel about legal situations. Find a reputable family lawyer and seek some advise. If they try and charge you for the initial advise tell them you know of your entitlement
  2. if on low income and claiming benefits you may be entitled to help with legal costs. Talk to the Citizens advise bureau/legal counsel about this if sought
  3. start keeping a log of all the arrangements to see the children and the outcomes... this will be good supporting evidence.

That said, its unfortunate that courts still tend to lean to mothers, my cousin lost his fight to see three of his four children, one of which was brainwashed against him and he was told the child was deceased by his ex. No repercussions on that legally. He has an excellent relationship with them now but he did miss their childhood.

I hope he gets to see his children and it all works out for them.

ohreallyohreallyoh · 04/01/2018 08:24

you are entitled to 30 minutes free legal counsel about legal situations

Simply not true. Many legal firms will do a free half hour but there is no entitlement to this.

on low income and claiming benefits you may be entitled to help with legal costs. Talk to the Citizens advise bureau/legal counsel about this if sought

Only where domestic violence can be proven. Has been no legal aid for family law for many years now.

The other thing you may need to consider OP is that there is a reason he doesnkit want to go to court. This could be just fear of the system, fear of the ex making things worse etc. It could also be not wanting your friend to know something about his past. Sometimes when you open the can of worms, a great big mess ensues.

Original poster
QueenAmongstMen · 04/01/2018 08:56

Thank you everyone.

I'm also dubious about the whole "can't afford it" argument which is why my friend reacted badly to me because I think she could sense that I don't believe it's a good enough excuse.

I had no idea about the costings before starting this thread but I always felt that if he really, really wanted to see his children he would find the money from somewhere.
Maybe he hasn't looked into the costs and thinks it will be more than it is, or maybe he has looked into it and he genuinely doesn't have a couple of hundred to spare. I really don't know.

The children are 9 and 10.

OP posts:
ohreallyohreallyoh · 04/01/2018 09:40

To be fair, it can run into thousands if you use legal advice and have a solicitor or barrister in court every time you attend. If he has seen a solicitor and/or knows someone who has been through it, it may well feel insurmountable. But....google. Google is our friend and you would ‘t have to try very hard to find excellent and accurate advice.

Original poster
QueenAmongstMen · 04/01/2018 09:50

One of my cousins has recently been in Court regarding her Ex and contact with their child and she was talking to me about the costs and she'd had to borrow many thousands from her parents for representation.

With her the case was very complex and she had grave concerns about her Ex seeing the daughter in the manner he wanted to and she felt out of her depth regarding representing herself. Her Ex had a solicitor and my cousin knew that if she didn't get one too then he had a huge advantage and would probably get the outcome he wanted because she didn't know how to argue against it.

Thankfully the Court Case went my cousin's way but she acknowledges that it's only because she had her Solicitor guiding her and taking charge.

I do wonder if my friend's partner just feels completely overwhelmed and knows that going it alone just won't work. If the costs can roll into thousands then there's absolutely no way he could afford it.

The whole system just seems so unfair.

He's such a nice man and the children are lovely and it just seems so wrong that his Ex has so much power over when he can and can't see his children and is so flippant about it. She tends to use him as a babysitter most times she allows contact as it mainly seems to happen when she has plans to do something and having the children would be an inconvenience to her.

OP posts:
ohreallyohreallyoh · 04/01/2018 10:01

It happens. The only way to fight it is court. Assuming no skeletons in his closet, there isn’t much to be lost by giving it a go. As a society we accept men giving up on their children and we blame women for it. Women are scapegoats for men’s poor behaviour across the board - if they rape us, we shouldn’t have been wearing a short skirt, if they murder us, it’s our fault for nagging, if they don’t see their children, it’s our fault for not letting them....

You should consider that it may suit your friend to not have his children around. Hence the touchiness.,

Original poster
QueenAmongstMen · 04/01/2018 10:12

You should consider that it may suit your friend to not have his children around. Hence the touchiness.,

My friend has children of her own from a previous LTR and her children get on very well with his and my friend is very fond of the children so I can't imagine she is in some way condoning the no contact.

From the messages his Ex has sent (the ones we've seen anyway) she gives the impression she is not happy for her children to be exposed to my friend and her children as though she doesn't want them to be part of their dad's new life.

OP posts:
Voiceforreason · 04/01/2018 10:34

I reccommend separateddads forum. Loads of help and advice on self representing. No need to feel intimidated. Just speak from the heart that is far more powerful than a legal representative. Good luck to him!

mrsmuddlepies · 04/01/2018 10:56

I think the law has recently changed to have more serious consequences for one parent to bad mouth, be obstructive to children seeing the other parent. Your friend will probably find the courts are sympathetic to the need for the father to have regular contact with his children. If the mother continues to be obstructive she could find herself losing custody.

Original poster
QueenAmongstMen · 04/01/2018 11:22

Thank you to everyone who has replied, you've all been very helpful.

Now I just have to find a way to pass this information into my friend without looking like I'm interfering.

OP posts:
UnitedKungdom · 04/01/2018 15:41

I wouldn't OP, unless she asks you. It's not even about your friend, it's about her partner and his most painful and private issue. So even more intrusive of you to make assumptions and 'suggestions'.

Wait and see if she asks your actual advice.

peppapigwouldmakelovelyrashers · 04/01/2018 16:31

He's such a nice man and the children are lovely and it just seems so wrong that his Ex has so much power over when he can and can't see his children and is so flippant about it

Yes, such a nice man, can't be bothered to even google how he can get proper access to his children! maybe the ex knows him a lot better than you do and has her reasons to limit access? Like the fact that he obviously isn't nearly as bothered as he likes to make out?

UnitedKungdom · 04/01/2018 23:53

I don't think anyone on this thread, including the OP, has a single clue about the real situation.

Everyone is advising someone who is nothing to do with the situation. What a pointless exercise.

Mummyontherun86 · 05/01/2018 00:00

I have a friend who literally bancrupted himself with legal fees trying to see his kids properly. He felt that even if it was hopeless he should be able to shows his children as adults that he did absolutely everything he could. It was at the expense of everything else and didn’t actually help... To be honest, mums are not always the innocent party and if they break court orders, often there are little to no consequences. So perhaps be a bit kinder. He sounds like he really is trying.

Original poster
QueenAmongstMen · 05/01/2018 09:17

I'm seeing my friend later today so hopefully things will have settled - I will apologise to her though.

We are all meant to be going out tomorrow to a nearby zoo which has been arranged for a few weeks. The arrangement is that he will have his children overnight tonight and then we can set off in the morning. The children were really excited when we booked the tickets so it would be a really heartless thing to do if she stopped them coming now. My friend's partner is trying to stay optimistic but said he won't believe it's happening until the children are with him.

OP posts:
Voiceforreason · 05/01/2018 10:05

Hope all goes well op. There is another side to this 'non contact dad' situation that never gets fairly treated on mn. Not all dads are deadbeat and not all mums are in the right! There are a lot of vindictive women out there who use the children as weapons against their ex. Particularly cruel to the children denying them a loving relationship with their father. Not every so called abusive man is abusive and not every so called victim mum is in fact a victim. Wouldn't it be great to see more balancr on mn!

Original poster
QueenAmongstMen · 05/01/2018 14:05

Thanks voice - he isn't a dead beat dad at all. He loves his children and is just in a really shitty situation. He's just so scared about challenging her because he thinks she will withhold contact even further. He literally just has to sit around and wait for her to decide he can see his children.

I saw above a poster said she knew a man who bankrupted himself trying to get access to his children and it's just so wrong. This Ex knows she holds the power because she knows the father hasn't got £100s of spare cash lying around to seek legal advice/action and it's quite obvious she would be as obstructive as possible even if he did go down that route.

He probably can't focus on playing the long game and going down the legal route because he knows it means he'd probably go months and months without being allowed to see his children and is instead just focused on the here and now and allowing his Ex to play this game because at least it means he gets to see his children sometimes.

It's all just really shit.

Things have undoubtedly got worse as his relationship with my friend has got more serious. I think my friend is worried he's going to end their relationship in the hope his Ex will let him see the children more.

OP posts: