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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A question for NHS staff

593 replies

Glowinginthedark · 03/01/2018 11:43

AIBU to think that no amount of money throw at the NHS in it current state will fix the issues? What is the real problem? Lack of funds or people completely abusing and misusing A&E or both?

OP posts:
VivaLeBeaver · 05/01/2018 10:02

Our local hospital now only funds mentorship at non academic qualification level.

GingerbreadMa · 05/01/2018 10:07

I just dont see how you can learnt to TEACH in a "non academic" way.

It will be all about the assessment process and covering the trusts arse re bad students etc, and not about learning the craft of actually MENTORING and teaching and bringing out the best in students Sad

You do need the academic theory if youre supposed to be EDUCATORS. However if youre just looking for good form fillers then you can sign that off in house....

Menarefrommarsitwouldseem · 05/01/2018 10:10

Physiotherapist, radiographers etc ALL start on band 5. Which is the same as the nurses within my trust.
With senior nurses, senior radiographers and senior physios being paid a 6.

I am assuming you're talking about a registered nurse when you say all ahp are paid more? As nurses pay banding is the same as every other profession in all of the trusts I've worked for.

Oliversmumsarmy · 05/01/2018 10:11

Ah, but she whinged and complained but still went back 3 times instead of putting her hand in her pocket and paying for it

So if you don't get the correct diagnosis and are still in pain you should pay to go private.

How very dare you for complaining about the sainted NHS

That just sums the NHS up to a tee

Menarefrommarsitwouldseem · 05/01/2018 10:12

And radiographers are not threatened???

Shows just how the whole " poor nurses mentality works doesn't it"
I've been assaulted more than once.
I've had to call the police
Security on a weekly basis
I've been spat at
Called every " cunt" under the sun.

Or do nurses get worse abuse along with their worse pay?

GingerbreadMa · 05/01/2018 10:16

"With senior nurses, senior radiographers and senior physios being paid a 6. "

The majority of senior staff nurses are band 5. Its not uncommon to still be a 5 after 10+ years!

Menarefrommars you obviouslt have an "us an them" mentality and are scrambling to insist its mutual. Its not FWIW.

Menarefrommarsitwouldseem · 05/01/2018 10:17

Not at all. Gingerbreadma

Quite the opposite. I'm trying to point out that the nurses have this " them and us mentality"

I'm assuming you're a nurse or training to be one?

GingerbreadMa · 05/01/2018 10:19

Nurses dont just "start" at band 5. Most stay at band 5 (admittedly top of 5) until retirement. And that is NOT common across the board of AHPs..since youre compairing..

Rebeccaslicker · 05/01/2018 10:21

Well Oliver, I said quite clearly upthread that I don't really use the NHS - I pay to go privately, even for the GP and for dentistry. So it's hardly that I think it's this perfect thing that should never be criticised.

I make those choices partly because I don't like to wait, partly because I can afford it so I don't see why I should take up a space that someone else needs, and partly because I think the NHS should be concentrating on bigger things than my blocked ear or smear test. Those are personal choices and everyone makes their own.

But for someone who doesn't live here and hasn't contributed to the NHS to help herself to the services, judge it all on her experience and demand that it be "dismantled"? That's rank stupidity, sorry.

GingerbreadMa · 05/01/2018 10:24

Quite the opposite. I'm trying to point out that the nurses have this " them and us mentality"

Your posts are really just showing your own cards here rather than pointing a light on anyone else.

I dont know anyone luckily who shares your attitude where I work, we generally all think its a bit shit for all of us. The AHPs I work with would be the first to agree that nurses are hard done by, and we are up there pointing out how although band 4s can be a great SUPPORT, it completely disrespects and belittles OTs and physios when they are replaced by 4s, who as good as they may be as individuals, are NOT OT/physio replacements!

Menarefrommarsitwouldseem · 05/01/2018 10:28

As do other ahp. Unless of course they do post grad studies or apply for management positions. At least that's what happens in my profession.
I was a band 5 for 10 years. I'm going to be moving up the payscale soon as I've been back to university and completed a post graduate diploma.

Not too dissimilar to advanced nurse prac I would imagine.
Band 6/7 isn't handed on a plate. Despite what others may think.

Anyway slightly off on a tangent here. My point is that ALL ahp deserve pay reflective of their studies. Not just nurses. Maybe then we would have more people wanting to choose health professions as a career because I said for years I could earn nearly this much stacking shelves with no traumatic experiences and abuse.

And don't get me started on the nurses, rads etc who are starting the courses now and will leave with 60k of debt to do such a poorly paid job. Free degrees and bursaries need to come back across the board.

GingerbreadMa · 05/01/2018 10:30

(Mind you we are now being replaced by band 4s too so sadly sticking up for our therapy teams when it happened to them didnt do us much good Sad )

Menarefrommarsitwouldseem · 05/01/2018 10:30

Gingerbreadma

I said in my first post. That all ahp deserve fair pay. I don't think it's acceptable that nurses earn so little. I also don't find it acceptable for the other ahps.
I am not going to demand pay increase for only nurses am I?

GingerbreadMa · 05/01/2018 10:31

(Mind you we are now being replaced by band 4s too so sadly sticking up for our therapy teams when it happened to them didnt do us much good Sad )

Rebeccaslicker · 05/01/2018 10:34

I wonder if it's because people think they know what nurses and doctors do, whereas they might not think of other roles such as radiographers? So it comes to mind more easily?

GingerbreadMa · 05/01/2018 10:37

Very few people know what a perfusionist or healthcare scientist even is!

A lot of trusts now do open days where people get to meet the lesser seen staff and tour the more unusual departments which is great IMO

Menarefrommarsitwouldseem · 05/01/2018 10:37

beccaslicker

I wonder if it's because people think they know what nurses and doctors do, whereas they might not think of other roles such as radiographers? So it comes to mind more easily?

I think so. I did an educational stand in my hospital entrance for world radiography day and I would say 70% of people who came over didn't know what the profession entailed.

frumpety · 05/01/2018 10:40

And also how much do you pay per month for your system ?

Rebeccaslicker · 05/01/2018 10:41

I must admit it wouldn't have occurred to me to think about other professions until a friend qualified as a psychologist and opened my eyes a bit to mental health in the NHS - and then I had DD and the sonographers were brilliant. And the anaesthetist - she deserved a bloody medal! So perhaps a bit of education about it would be a good thing for the general public - esp thinking about teenagers looking at career ideas.

(I sent the hospital a few big boxes of hotel chocolat taster trays to the labour ward, the anaesthetists and the team doing baby ultrasounds because they all looked after me so well and were all so calm and approachable in overcrowded difficult working conditions).

frumpety · 05/01/2018 10:50

Sorry Alexa , I am honestly not picking on you , its just you are currently using a system that others are suggesting . So can you clarify how much your resident system costs you per month and also do you have to pay any additional charges such as to access primary care ( GP and practice nurse visits ) prescription charges ?

It would be interesting to compare how much someone on an average wage in the UK pays monthly towards the current NHS system , if anyone has the figures for comparison ?

GingerbreadMa · 05/01/2018 10:55

It really is the admin staff who are most villified though and most of them are paid bellow band 4 and we would FALL TO PIECES without them. They get the most abuse from the public, people really talk to them like shit, and nobody "sees" all the work they do for our patients because if theyre doing their job you have no REASON to think of them: your notes "just" arrive in the right place at the right time, our patient lists "just" appear. Letters "just" get sent. Lost property "just" turns up. Broken light fittings "just" get reported. Porters "just" get booked to take you to your scans. Your results "just" get filed in your notes. They also go above and beyond daily doing the stuff we dont have time to do.

GingerbreadMa · 05/01/2018 11:05

Oh and peope are rude to them ALL.DAY.LONG face to face and on the phone. Their resilliance and diplomacy amazes me!

frumpety · 05/01/2018 11:15

Does anyone else live in the EU ? or knows how much it costs per month for healthcare in these insurance based systems ?

FruitCider · 05/01/2018 13:00

Or do nurses get worse abuse along with their worse pay?

Well how many radiographers do you know working for band 5 pay in areas where violence is very likely eg prisons?

AndromedaPerseus · 05/01/2018 14:18

The current situation in the NHS resembles that of the Mid Staffordshire scandal; the difference is NHS staff are shouting from the rafters about the current appalling unsafe conditions for patients and staff

Transcipt from Mid Staffordshire Scandal from The Guardian:
Care at Stafford was "appalling", the watchdog's report said. The Guardian reported at the time that it found "inadequately trained staff who were too few in number, junior doctors left alone at nights and patients left without food, drink or medication as their operations were repeatedly cancelled. Receptionists with no medical training were expected to assess patients coming in to A&E, some of whom needed urgent care."

The then health secretary Alan Johnson said there had been "a complete failure of management to address serious problems and monitor performance, [which] led to a totally unacceptable failure to treat emergency patients safely and with dignity". Bruce Keogh, the NHS's medical director, condemned the trust's "complete failure of leadership". HCC chairman Sir Ian Kennedy said its report was "a shocking story … of appalling standards and chaotic systems for looking after patients. These are words I have not previously used in any report."

  1. Why was care so bad?
"A chronic shortage of staff, particularly nursing staff, was largely responsible for the substandard care," Francis found in his first report. In addition, morale was low and "while many staff did their best in difficult circumstances, others showed a disturbing lack of compassion towards their patients", he added. "Staff who spoke out felt ignored and there is strong evidence that many were deterred from doing so through fear and bullying."

He laid much of the blame on the trust's ruling board. The action they took to investigate and resolve concerns "was inadequate and lacked an appropriate sense of urgency". Its members also "chose to rely on apparently favourable performance reports by outside bodies, such as the Healthcare Commission, rather than effective internal assessment and feedback from staff and patients". He was particularly critical of the trust's failure to take patients' complaints seriously enough.
Crucially, Francis also highlighted the key impact of the trust board's decision to try to save £10m in 2006-07, as part of its desire to gain foundation trust status. "The board decided this saving could only be achieved through cutting staffing levels, which were already insufficient." It also ignored staff's concerns, he added.*

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