A question for NHS staff

[Glowinginthedark]

AIBU to think that no amount of money throw at the NHS in it current state will fix the issues? What is the real problem? Lack of funds or people completely abusing and misusing A&E or both?

Sadly the NHS is a huge bureaucracy and v inefficient / difficult to make changes. Plus it was not set up to deal with so many people / life expectancy increasing / huge advances in medical science / drug costs etc. I also think it is abused

Amen to that Emoconn. You've reminded me of one of my patients, who missed an appointment because she'd assumed an ambulance would be coming to get her and it never turned up. I explained that ambulance transport is only booked for patients with genuine medical need for it, no family/friends who can offer a lift, and are unable to access public transport. She insisted that all of the above applied to her and she couldn't possibly manage on the bus with her back pain and mobility difficulties. I offered her another appointment, which she turned down because she was going on a coach tour that day.

The ceo thing might annoy people . But I am thinking of one who was inadequate , responsible for deaths , not held accountable and awarded contracts for millions to friends and was allowed to leave with a large pension. Perhaps the unaccountability is more annoying than earning £240000 per year . But imo , personally , it does not sit right with me .

I haven’t read much more of the thread but just that this might be a good place to point out that I had to give up the opportunity to retrain to work on the NHS frontline this September.

The Welsh Government has decided to keep it’s bursary but you have to commit to working in Wales for two years. Fine but we don’t have a hospital. We are treated 30 miles away over the border. I couldn’t risk not finding a job in Wales and having to pay back £28k immediately (ie within three months).

Neither could I decline the bursary and take the loan as in their infinite wisdom, Welsh Government has decided that people with a previous degree can’t access student finance, unlike in England.

It is sheer stupidity to be turning people who are willing to study and take on a massive student loan to do it. I’m on a different path now but it makes me angry that there are people like me who want to serve the NHS but can’t afford to.

Thanks @MissConductUS for that further information. I am very glad the annual leave isn't as bad as I have been led to believe.

The NHS being free at the point of delivery is both one of its most noble & admirable qualities AND one of its biggest problems, because when something is free (or perceived to be) there is a tendency to abuse it or use it wastefully. When there is a complete disconnect between what we pay (through our taxes) and the service we receive, there is no encouragement to use it judiciously. I have actually heard people say about calling an ambulance in circumstances where it really wasn't necessary, "Why not? After all we've paid for it"

I do understand this argument and see there may be something to it. Yet I here people say they don't want the US for profit model (something I would not want) but I would prefer other European models. Yet from some reading many of the European models include deducting payment directly from salary to fund the healthcare (even if not centrally governed) either completely such as 89% of German population or for a large majority with the rest funded by private insurance but, importantly, mainly not for profit companies such as the French model.

I would welcome politicians discussing looking at other European models, but I will never support the American for profit healthcare model and that to my alarm is the road the governments seem to be taking the UK down. I also know we need better funding of social care which is not being dealt with and is effecting the NHS.

Typo above, should be 'people say.. they would prefer other European models of funding'

I do think they (all) want the NHS to succeed.

Jeremy Hunt was a co author for a pamphlet from a few years back praising the US private healthcare model, so I really don't believe people such as him wish for the NHS to succeed. Also there are a considerable amount of Conservative MP's (don't have figures to hand but much more than Labour and other parities) who have business interests in private healthcare insurance. I think this is a terrible conflict of interest when they would stand to profit personally if the NHS is slowly taken over by private health insurance companies.

Thanks @Want2beSupermum for explaining further.

The French have to pay a co payment with 70% of healthcare being funded directly from salary payments. The majority of them have this co payment reimbursed through the extra insurance they take out (with their employers often contributing towards the top up insurance) most of which as said previously are not for profit insurance companies. The long term sick and unemployed (elderly too?) have 100% of the healthcare covered.

I'm a student nurse and will be qualified b the end of the year. I'm sorry if it's been addressed, I read most of the replies but not all. But unis are only 50% responsible for our training and the rest is out in practice in the NHS. There are not enough placements or mentors for more students. Staff are also often too busy to teach us as well and we are often just used as extra support staff (when we should be supernumerary). I absolutely love caring for people, it's such a privilege but I know as a nurse I'll probably not have the same time to do this part of the job. Anyway my point is that the NHS is so stretched that I (and many of us) feel we do not get adequate training. This terrifies me as I know I'll pretty much be left to it when I qualify due to staff shortages.

I've not read all of the thread (but I will)

I work for the NHS clinically and have done for the past 15 years.
I think the problems within the NHS are numerous and it has changed so much since I graduated.

So far this week I have done 2 night shifts and they've been utterly horrific. I work at a large inner city hospital and it looked like a war zone. People queuing just to get into resus ffs!

Anyway. I think the biggest factors are an ageing population and an increase in population.

A general attitude of " I'll just pop to a&e" and medical advances mean those patients who would have been 'called' in resus now survive with a lengthy hospital stay.

I am not sure how long it can carry on the way it is and I'm not even sure what the answer is.

I've read a couple of poster state that nurses and midwives need to be paid appropriately... more.

They are not the only hcpc registered profs in the hospital setting. Who require the amount of education that "they do"

Unrelated but the whole poor nurses things gets right on my tits.
I agree poor nurses.
Also poor physios, poor odps, poor radiographers!

Its not mutually exclusive menareformars nurses were BIG supporters of the nurses strike. Are big advocators of ODPs not getting for gotten when it comes to recruitment and training etc.

Who are these nurses that you think only wants fair working conditions for themselves and no other health professionals?

"Doctors strike"

Gingerbreadma

It was a few posters on here actually giving it the " nurses need pay to reflect their training"
" nurses pay needs increasing"

Only the minority mind you. Still annoying. The press would have you believe the NHS is ran by only Drs and nurses too.

Nurses themselves wouldn't and haven't said that no. They're realistic.

I work in the nhs and the cost of providing the healthcare people expect / want is not currently funded.

Although a lot of pressure is in the hospitals and a&e this is partly due to poor investment in primary care so we have patients who don't need s hospital using resources and beds as there is no other alternative.

@00alwaysbusymum, thanks for sharing that info. When you say primary care, do you mean GP surgeries or lack of sufficient social care at home or residential? Thank you.

Nurses are generally paid less than other registered HCPs. In our London hospital I can't think of a single AHP (e.g. Radiographer, OT, physio, pharmacist, psychologists) on less than band 6 pay, with most on Band 7. The vast majority of nurses are band 5. It's not even supply and demand, the market is flooded with pharmacy graduates and last time I advertised for a psychologist we have 150 applicants. While nursing posts are unfilled and if you get 1-2 applicants you've done well.

Well the midwives union called the midwives out on strike. I believe the RCN also called the nurses out on strike a few years ago. Did the physios and OTs, etc strike? If they did I didn’t hear about it. So that might be a Media issue, it might be their unions not being vocal enough?

Actually think the radiographers must have been on strike with the nurses as there was someone on the picket line locally with a skeleton.....they looked like a radiographer.

It’s not broken. They have saved my life twice! They do need more money and better management. This should include a hands off approach from government. Both the NHS and education suffer from being used as political tools.

I work in mental health. We are being asked to treat many more patients year on year without additional funding. It doesn't add up. It simply needs more money. Patients skipping and cancelling appointments does waste a lot of money. We have very few managers / seniors on high salaries. The whole thing is run on a shoestring. And the admin staff work extremely hard as does everyone else.

Why does the NHS deserve praise for doing what it is there to do? It should be saving your life - it's what it is paid millions a year to do.

I live somewhere with an insurance based WORKING health system. I can't understand why anyone wants to save the NHS - if it was that good other countries would have copied the system. Hey guess what, nowhere has because it's a stupid, expensive, unsustainable way of providing healthcare.

Dismantle it and replace with a system of health insurance.

ruth sorry to hear about your husband I will take on board your comments about referring to feed , I had never associated the term as being derogatory or demeaning , but will now . As far as the supplement drinks are concerned , I whole heartedly agree , they are pretty rank . You would need to check with one of the nutritionists but a friend had to take them for a while and made them into what she called 'cocktails' to make them more palatable , so she added Ribena to the forest fruits one and used to mix a little instant coffee up and add that to the cappuccino one , she also said she could only ever stomach them when they were really cold .

I think Holly has hit the nail on the head regarding various different trusts trying different things , failing at them , but then a neighbouring trust will go ahead with exactly the same plan , spend the money and resources , demotivate and demoralise staff and end up with a situation providing a poorer service than the one they dismantled .

There are a lot of plans currently which are encouraging a greater working arrangement between the NHS and social services , a great idea in practice . The problem is the pot of money allocated to social services to be able to provide social care has significantly reduced , as has the number of local government run residential/rehab beds .

I also think that a lot of the public believe that the NHS is social care in the community , a long the lines of 'cradle to grave' , it isn't . It is a completely separate organisation , funded separately and it is at breaking point , this then has a huge knock on effect on the acute services that the NHS does provide .

for Alexa