To think it's really cheeky to remove Christmas flowers from the altar for your wedding

[user1485342611]

A good friend of mine is on the flower team for our local church. They did the altar up beautifully for Christmas. A wedding had been booked in the church for a few days after Christmas and they wanted to remove all the flowers and replace with their own arrangements. It was explained to the B&G that once the Church was decorated for Christmas it had to stay that way until 12th night.

The couple kicked up an almighty fuss and said there was no way they wanted red and white flowers on the altar during their wedding. Then, with no permission, they went into the church, removed all the Christmas arrangements from the altar and left them at the side of the Church. They then replaced them with their own flowers, and brought the flowers away with them after the wedding, leaving the altar (and the steps outside which were also decorated for Christmas) bare.

They told no one what they had done and when it was discovered my friend and her team (all voluntary workers) who had spent hours getting the Church ready for Christmas, then had to give up more of their time restoring the altar to the way it was. They were absolutely furious.

AIBU to think this was unbelievably cheeky and to also not understand why you would get married at Christmas time and then object to the Church being decorated in a Christmassy fashion?

Im intrigued with all this. Do the "flower volunteers" really tell brides that their flowers cannot be touched? Or did the vicar tell them? I thought that volunteers came in and did their bit without having much to do with the vicar? Are flower volunteers a normal church thing? (Fascinating stuff for those who do not know). Who makes sure that the volunteers are any good? Or do they not have to be?

@callmeadoctor Flowers, how they're arranged, who arranged them and how well they are arranged does seem to vary enormously between churches and denominations. In one of my churches the flower team's input involved ensuring that there were flowers in vases in the church every Sunday - funded by individuals usually in memory of someone or a significant anniversary. After the service the flowers were delivered to two or three people in the local community - not necessarily church members - who had been ill, bereaved, were celebrating birth of a baby, whatever, with a card. In that church the flowers weren't usually "arranged".

In other churches there can be people who are very good at arranging flowers. So, there will be more elaborate arrangements, which are then split up after the service and as before, taken to people with a card and good wishes of the congregation. In these churches it's more likely that an offer will be made for the flower team to do wedding flowers etc if requested.

Where I am just now - both churches were decorated for Advent and Christmas. The decorations were mostly evergreens, foliage, and berries. In one of the churches I knew there was to be a baptism during Advent, and that more space than usual would be used for school services, and that was taken into account by the team who made the arrangements more moveable than they might have done. In both churches, most of the arrangements really couldn't be moved without dismantling or ruining them. In the other church, there was a wedding early in Advent - a church family - and I noticed that the baubles on the Christmas tree were an exact match to the colour of the bridesmaids' dresses!

Christmas and other arrangements for the Christian year can be very elaborate, take hours to put together, and are designed to last for weeks with regular care and maintenance. It's not unreasonable for the church to say that they have to remain in place for the hour or so that a wedding takes, and as has already been pointed out - most couples who marry in church at these times appreciate the extra decoration in the building, and don't want it changed. If they don't like it - well, they can get married elsewhere or on a different date.

Not impressed by anyone here. The Church should have said it was ok to move their flowers as long as they were put back.

The couple should have put the flowers back afterwards.

Our Church was lovely and wanted us to have a nice wedding ceremony. I asked the volunteer where they would usually place their own flowers and made sure our flowers matched that, and then we left our professional flowers behind as a gift to the Church, which they were grateful for. It’s a shame this church and couple didn’t a eva more co-operative attitude.

I work for a largish church (not in the UK) and organise all weddings, baptisms, etc. In my experience ministers (in our case all male) are not particularly good at the details and it's better to have someone who's job it is to sort these things out and leave the ceremony stuff to them. I've been doing this job for 5 years now and have had to repeatedly amend the packs that go out to couples as each wedding they will push the boundaries of what is acceptable. Like coming in the day before and telling us they have a musician who needs sound support which is not normally included.
Most recently a member of our church got married a few days before Christmas. She was told from the start that the decorations (in our case a large tree and hundreds of white lights) were none negotiable. She still tried to get the tree removed. I basically told her to suck it up. The tree stayed but she insisted none of the lights were on. It looked weird
The B&G were given explicit instructions. They could have spoken to the minister/office and tried to negotiate. They didn't and they were out of order. Nothing to do with inclusiveness, Christian forgiveness or any of the other reasons given in this thread.

If I found out a couple of days before my wedding that there was going to be flowers there that weren't mine and didn't match my colour scheme then I would probably have done the same tbh. I would have put them back though. If they were warned in advance then it's a bit unreasonable

polkadotpixie

If I found out a couple of days before my wedding that there was going to be flowers there that weren't mine and didn't match my colour scheme then I would probably have done the same tbh

Why would you only find this out a couple of days before? Presumably only because actually being inside a church is such a rare event you don't know the altar would be decorated for Christmas.

I'm as hard line an atheist as you will find on MN but this behaviour is childish, selfish and so lacking in respect I don't really understand why you would bother with a church wedding.

Some people find red and white flowers together unlucky

Some people believe in ridiculous superstitions - flowers are not lucky or unlucky.

I wouldn't (& didn't) have a church wedding because I'm an atheist, it was just a response to this scenario

If I was in this couple's position though, I'd be annoyed if I wasn't specifically told, I don't think it would even cross my mind that you wouldn't be allowed your own flowers if you had a church wedding

Which bit needs to be explained? That the altar would be decorated for Christmas?

If someone doesn't know that , which they would by virtue of having actually been in a church, church going can't be very important.

"If I found out a couple of days before my wedding that there was going to be flowers there that weren't mine and didn't match my colour scheme then I would probably have done the same tbh"

In the nicest possible way LassWiTheDelicateAir no-one cares that they won't match. Honestly. No-one will notice.

I would notice if the flowers didn’t match. I wouldn’t care or criticise, but I would totally notice.

I bet most people wouldn't McTufty, and they certainly wouldn't care.

The Band G were cheeky entitled guys tbh. We got married at Christmas, full nativity set out on alter Dias, Christmas tree, flowers. I wouldn’t have dreamed of altering it though. I know the hours of unpaid work that goes into this and the importance of them at this important time of year.We got married in church for religious reasons though not some bridezilla- the pictures have to look amazing reason. Probably also the sort of couple complaining they had to have a religious reading rather than just a poem about Winnie the Pooh!

I got married in my local church. In the initial meeting with the minister 12 months before the date, when we enquiries about booking it, he ran through the church schedule, explained about the flower rota and asked us to contact the volunteers directly to discuss flowers. I should imagine that most other church's are similar and that this couple would have had plenty of notice as to what they could, and couldn't do.

I can almost get over the couple moving the flowers, however not replacing them was rude in the extreme.

Imagine you agree to host a party for someone in your house. They want specific photos displayed for the event so they come in, sweep all your family photos to the side and when they are finished they just bugger off without replacing all your memories where they belong but leaving them in a heap under the table.

That's what this couple have done. They have shown zero regard to hours of work by a group of people to whom that hard work has tremendous significance and that's just plain rude.

I agree with you OP but there is definitely a fixed fee to marry in a church. This fixed fee is set centrally and cannot be altered. It can be increased though depending on the extras pertaining to any particular church e.g. Bell ringing etc..

We were asked to pay a rather large sum of money to have our own flowers in the church ontop of the standard fee.

Link below explaining that the fixed fee is set nationally. I should mention this so for a Cof E church.....

www.yourchurchwedding.org/article/the-cost-of-church-weddings/

But OP never said it was a CofE church, freshstart. I know that at least some Catholic churches do weddings by donation, and I'm sure some other denominations do, too.

I still don't see any difference though whether it's a donation or a flat fee. If the stipulations are that you cannot use your own flowers during certain periods then no matter what you pay those are the terms and you go somewhere else if that matters to you.

That sounds like a perfectly good justification for churches to refuse weddings to anyone but members of their congregation. So many churches are locked now. Who knows what else they may hsve done?!

What if the church had a really gory crucifix or ugly tapestries - would they be ok to throw a sheet over Jesus?

You can't just mess with the alter!

Bride and groom sound thick to be honest. Why would they not think a church would be decorated specially for Christmas? Will probably get flamed for this but I'm atheist and don't agree with people getting married in places of worship if they don't practice, I find it uncomfortable that they want to use the beautiful building without believing in the religious part of the vows.

Bride and groom were disrespectful. And does anyone other than them really care what flowers are used at a wedding? I've never paid attention to them!

There are plenty of amazing locations to get married in (even unconsecrated churches) where you could do what you like decoration wise, within reason.

I wonder if they asked beforehand about the flowers and were told no but did it anyway.

I think if the B&G were told of this when they booked the church for the wedding they were rude and inappropriate. If, however, they were only told this in the run up to Christmas I'd be inclined to forgive them for using their own flowers, but not for neglecting to redecorate the church afterwards.

The bride and groom are told, when booking the church, to contact the flower team a certain amount of time in advance to discuss the flowers. In this way, colour schemes can be agreed, the flower team will know if they're required to arrange flowers or if a florist has been hired, brides can be put in touch with each other if their weddings are taking place over the same few days so they can agree on what flowers to choose, the bride and groom can be informed if there are certain requirements for that time of the year (e.g. flowers during lent will have to be provided by the B&G and removed as soon as the ceremony is over) etc etc. It also means that compromises can be arranged e.g. the flowers at Easter can't be completely rearranged but if the bride wants to supply a couple of bunches of her favourite flower they will be added into the existing arrangements by the flower team - things like that.

Most B&Gs do this and that's great. Some don't because they have no interest in the flowers and are happy to go with what's already on the altar, and that's fine.

The problem arises with the small number of couples who don't bother to make any contact with the flower team until a couple of days before the wedding and then assume that everyone can bend over backwards to accommodate them. Even then, the flower team will do their best to find a compromise but sometimes it's just not possible.

It takes hours to do the Christmas altars and the flower team have to all agree a day when they will be available - which can involve cancelling other arrangements, getting a babysitter etc. Trying to get the team together, at short notice, a few days after Christmas to remove the arrangements and then be available a few hours later to replace them is just logistically not possible. Several of them will have gone away for Christmas, others will have family staying or young children to look after. Even in the case I outlined a couple of other church workers had to assist, even though the flowers are normally nothing to do with them.

Assist in putting the flowers back on the altar, I meant.

Sorry, also meant to add that it's not simply a matter of chucking a larger donation at the Church. The flower team are not paid for their work, and cannot be always available at the drop of a hat.