When is it right to call 999?

[CanadaMoose91]

Let me preface this by saying that obvious time wasters (scraped knee, runny nose) need not apply.

But I've seen so many people say that only cardiac arrest, stroke, or issues breathing are acceptable. This worries me, as I haven't got a car, and wouldn't be able to drive myself or my family to A&E if anything happened.

For example, a few weeks back I was having severe pains in my back and stomach - a pain so intense that I was writhing, was vomiting, and couldn't keep anything down. It took over 5 hours of this pain to actually call 111, who told me I should have called earlier and sent an ambulance. It was diagnosed as kidney stones, and was told it would pass. The crew left immediately. I felt so awful and felt I had wasted money and resources on an already crumbling NHS.

The thing is, what is someone supposed to do in that situation? I don't want to cost the country a fortune, but what if it was something as serious as it felt? I don't want to be goady, I really just want to know if there is an alternative to 111, 999 or A&E if breathing is ok.

It's a judgement call. Sometimes it's obvious like my ex DH getting run over on Christmas day a few ago or my 3 year olds finger hanging off after shutting it in a car door, other times it isn't. I drove my eldest to A&E with breathing problems (only 5-10 minute drive) and the doctor in resus was amazed I hadn't called an ambulance. Some people do abuse the system (a child with blue legs in A&E because the dye had come out of her jeans and another child with gnat bites) and some don't use the system when they need it (elderly man fell out of bed Christmas eve at around 10pm. His wife made him a bed on the floor as she couldn't get him up and a neighbour called an ambulance yesterday. The wife didn't want to call an ambulance over Christmas). Canadamoose you did the right thing

We have a walk-in centre 9 miles away, but it's only open 8am-8pm. My GP surgery tells patients to ring 111 out of hours. I've only done that once, and they called an ambulance, because I was vomiting blood.

I've no idea where we'd have to go for an out-of-hours appointment, it used to be at a community hospital about 10 miles away, so still difficult if you don't drive. (It's very difficult to get a taxi during the night unless you've pre-booked it, just one of the joys of living in a rural area)

You did the right thing - in March last year we called 111 with severe stomach pains late one night and they sent an ambulance. Turns out that my appendix had ruptured, I had sepsis and was tacticardic. I almost died and the "will only take an hour to investigate and remove your appendix" turned into 5 hours and three in recovery. I thought I had bad gas and didn't want to call but I was told by my husband that I stopped screaming or he was calling 111. I almost died.

So many times that I would be screaming for hours with a gallbladder attack (worse than the appendix) and I never went in to hospital as they said it was just a bad back spasm from my epidural... Apparently by the time I finally had blood tests I was really ill... I was told after my results came back to go straight to A&E if I had another attack after that. If I had gone into hospital the first time with the ambulance I wouldn't have waited months, wasted thousands of pounds of the NHS on physio, drugs and A&E visits... As well as 5 days in hospital after my appendix blew up due to my gallbladder complications.

Kidney stone I hear is really painful. You didn't waste money as sometimes it is better to be safe than sorry.

I can't drive and the ambulance driving me in meant that rather than waiting for hours (which with sepsis every hour you leave it knocks off 7% chance of survival) I went straight in and was hit with morphine straight away and had my blood test results and then powerful antibiotics before I would have been seen despite the screaming in pain.

When I had a rumbling appendix the month before my appendix blew up, they didn't send an ambulance and I spent the night in A&E with that so trust me they only send one when they think they need to.

Yes there are time wasters but you were not one of them. Stomach pains can be really really serious. Now I know if I scream in pain I call 111. They will probably send an ambulance but I know they will know all the right checks now to if I need to go in.

Want to point something out people saying get a taxi on here, not everyone can pay for a taxi if they need to go to a&e. Also some things that may not be immediately urgent can become urgent within a couple of hours, if you can't get a taxi and you are told you need to go to a&e but have no way of getting there what do you do? wait till you are at deaths door literally?

The thing is, an ambulance isn’t transport to hospital. Ever. It isn’t really relevant whether you can afford a taxi or not- an ambulance isn’t a free taxi.

All that matters when you get an ambulance is whether is medically justified, not the state of the patients finances

I had the same thing symptomatically and got blue lighted in - kidney stones were suspected but actually I had a ruptured Fallopian tube. You did the right thing.
I went to bed in moderate pain but took pain killers, woke up in severe pain and within an hour was worse than labour). There would have been no way I could have driven myself anywhere and although initially I was expecting my husband to drive me in (arguing the toss with ambulance suggested by Dr on 111), I was then in so much pain I knew something was severely wrong and needed ambulance. I also work front line and wouldn't call an ambulance unnecessarily. I think you have a fair sense of reasoning.

All that matters when you get an ambulance is whether is medically justified, not the state of the patients finances

But I suppose if the alternative is the patient staying at home and dying then it becomes medically justified...

Was told exact opposite when ex had suspected heart attack. Drove him to hosp. Ambulance crew who later transferred him to different hosp for op said I should have dialled 999.

Do you always get seen immediately if you get taken into hospital by ambulance?
What if it’s severe and needs urgent attention but you arrive by being driven? Do you always still have to wait?

We have NHS 24 in Scotland. Presume rest of U.K. Has the same. Therefore you don't need to decide on 999 as The decision is made for you. Obviously if suspected heart attack, breathing difficulties or extreme blood loss I'd call 999.

“999 should only be called for conditions including cardiac arrest, choking, severe chest pain, suspected stroke, serious blood loss and unconsciousness."

That's from south west ambulances. Anything else, call 111 and get directed to the correct service.

A third of calls to the 111 service on a Saturday morning are from people needing prescriptions because they ran out.

The public need to take more responsibility for their own health!

I would have called 999 , actually, or got taxi to hospital. You must have been frightened.

??gone to GP?? - it's not 1955!

A huge number of calls are people asking where the ambulance is. Sometimes an ambulance is diverted several times when a higher priority call comes in. Another large volume of calls is from people with mental health problems. They take up a lot of time. If the calls are "stacking" then once the life threatening conditions have been dealt with everyone will get an ambulance, regardless of the reason they called, purely so the calls can be dealt with quickly. This is so any life threatening conditions are not held in a queue. The ambulance might not arrive for hours but it will have been arranged. There are several ambulance services in the UK. They all have different ways of doing things. This is just one of the services.

motherofdragons there are actually many other reasons for calling 999 for an ambulance. Yours is not a definitive list.

itsbetter - makes absolutely no difference how you arrive. You will likely skip triage as the paramedics will have done that bit but if not urgent and gone in by ambulance then it's the same wait. If you arrive by car and it's urgent then same as arriving via ambulance

Do you always get seen immediately if you get taken into hospital by ambulance?

Of course not. Unless very urgent, you stay in the ambulance (which is in effect a mobile treatment unit, that cost £400k) until the hospital is ready to start your 4 hour clock. The 4 hour target a perverse incentive that means ambulances wait around underused at the A&E door.

Picture from Norfolk, 2 days ago. Ambulances waiting hours to disembark patients are a recurring story at Norfolk hospitals.

What if it’s severe and needs urgent attention but you arrive by being driven? Do you always still have to wait?

That's what triage is for. Unless you need treatment NOW or en route, I'd try hard to avoid calling an ambulance. Travel by ambulance is a guaranteed wait before entering A&E in my mind unless the situation is desperate.

I think if I’m doubt call 111 and they will talk you through the symptoms and then make the decision to call and ambulance or not.

The ambulance service have a priority system so will go to calls in order of when they come in unless something more urgent comes through.

Please do not worry about wasting their time it is better to be safe then sorry sometimes

I have been driven by car to A&E and seen before people coming in by ambulance. You get treated in order of priority irrespective of how you get there. Which is as it should be.

My GP surgery doesn't have an out of hours either, therefore in your circumstances, I'd ring 111. Our local hospital has a 'walk in' part but it's advised to ring 111 and they'd give an allocated appointment to attend one of the walk in centres to be seen by an on-call GP.

I've had to ring 111 on a few occasions, one for my husband when he collapsed on the toilet floor after vomiting and was writhing in agony on the floor and couldn't get any blood out to check his blood glucose levels. I rang 111 and they sent an ambulance. He was admitted to hospital with severe gastroenteritis, but being type 1 diabetic, it had a knock on effect. I couldn't stop apologising to the paramedics but they were fab.

My GP surgery also has a 4 week wait time for appointments, it's an absolute joke. They tell you to ring at 8am for a 'same day appointment', ring at 8am and lines are closed, ring at 5 past and all appointments have gone! Really can't win with them.

My DH was recently sent an letter to make a routine appointment with a specific GP, with regards to a request from his employer relating to his Diabetes. That was on 20th December. The only appointment available with that doctor was 15th January. I get that it's christmas/new year, but this is the same every month. It's nuts.

@DoolallyBinzes motherofdragons there are actually many other reasons for calling 999 for an ambulance. Yours is not a definitive list.
It's not "my" list but the exact wording from our local ambulance service and what I'm told to say in my nhs job by nhs England.

No, it's not always about being medically justifiable. I myself have been in the position where I needed to be in hospital ASAP but did not need to go by ambulance.

Although I did kind of wish I had, as when they finally got round to triaging me in A&E the nurse looked horrified at my vital signs, rushed out, I heard her talking to some other people, and then she came back and insisted on wheeling me straight through to resus where I found myself suddenly surrounded by staff urgently doing stuff to me and it was all rather scary...

But it was 111 who sent the taxi, so I suppose that's more the fault of 111 for not warning the hospital I was coming.

Forgot to say, I think having a scheme in my area where they send a taxi instead of an ambulance is marvellous, but they need to improve it a little so that you're not being left sitting in waiting rooms with sepsis - if the ambulance service had taken me in an ambulance car, they would have phoned ahead, right? That's basically the only time where having an ambulance is an advantage over not having one if you don't need the full van full of medical equipment turning up on your doorstep.

•A third of calls to the 111 service on a Saturday morning are from people needing prescriptions because they ran out.
The public need to take more responsibility for their own health!•

That's very true, but it involves quite a bit of thinking ahead. Notice in our local pharmacist reminds us that one of the major practices need 72 hours to issue a repeat prescription; add to that the 48 hours required by the pharmacist and it means that you need to order at least a week ahead. I have a spreadsheet to manage my DDad's 9 prescriptions - no way could he cope by himself.