When is it right to call 999?

[CanadaMoose91]

Let me preface this by saying that obvious time wasters (scraped knee, runny nose) need not apply.

But I've seen so many people say that only cardiac arrest, stroke, or issues breathing are acceptable. This worries me, as I haven't got a car, and wouldn't be able to drive myself or my family to A&E if anything happened.

For example, a few weeks back I was having severe pains in my back and stomach - a pain so intense that I was writhing, was vomiting, and couldn't keep anything down. It took over 5 hours of this pain to actually call 111, who told me I should have called earlier and sent an ambulance. It was diagnosed as kidney stones, and was told it would pass. The crew left immediately. I felt so awful and felt I had wasted money and resources on an already crumbling NHS.

The thing is, what is someone supposed to do in that situation? I don't want to cost the country a fortune, but what if it was something as serious as it felt? I don't want to be goady, I really just want to know if there is an alternative to 111, 999 or A&E if breathing is ok.

Not health/ambulance, but I made my daughter dial 999 on Boxing Day after we saw a car clearly lose power and pull onto the central reservation on the motorway, halfway on/halfway off the lane. I know somebody who was killed in similar circumstances so for me it was an emergency. Yes, the driver might have been able to call for help themselves, but it wasn't worth the risk in my view, he could have been ill, it could have been anything that caused him to make that split second decision. It was dark, pouring with rain and the car behind it had to swerve to avoid hitting it. On relaying this story, I've had a few people say "999, really?". Yes, really. It was frightening and I can't see how the driver could have safely moved themselves from their position without police intervention.

Bleeding to death. Coloured blue. Chest pain that is so severe you pass out. Bone sticking out of limb.

I often wonder about this. My mum takes very, very frequent seizures. No rescue meds. I'm trained in first aid but no expert and when she has 5, 6 in a row I panic and 111 insist on 999. So do all public places. I can't drive and no contacts with a car who would help me so if she's in public it has to be an ambulance.

I know the paramedics and call handlers very well , first name basis with several and they say mum's a frequent flier.

Her GP surgery said I need to try to manage without an ambulance but it isnt that easy when she's turning blue, vomiting whilst unconscious, hallucinating and screaming or bleeding from her mouth. It's fucking terrifying.

I have had an ambulance threw times for me (2 leg fractures as a child and no car - community casualty did a shared ambulance to big hospital 30 miles away, once dehydration at age 6). Gp tried to call one once for menstrual pain so could get enotonox and morphine en route but ended up a neighbour taking me in , that was hell. Also took 2 buses and a taxi in severe urine retention (2l), that too was dreadful but was told had to go to large A&E as district nurses and community hospital wouldn't catheterise (need supervision of urology surgeons). Nightmare.

I've had kidney stones and you did exactly the right thing. You must have been in absolute agony and scared silly. The first time you get them is always the worst because you don't know what's happening. We have a really good GP who told me : with the pain of a heart attack you are scared that you are going to die ... with the pain of kidney stones you are scared that you're not going to die - the pain is so bad. He has prescribed me a couple of really really strong painkillers to take if it happens again which will tide me over until I can get to A and E.
You did the right thing. Only those who have suffered from kidney stones know what it's like.

111 has been great for us because we were able to get an appointment set up at a walk in clinic or find out when to go to an urgent care unit in a hospital.
But the catch was that we once had to wait 5 hours for a callback from a doctor to get that phone consultation/appointment. For some symptoms that wait is too long to risk.
A taxi may not take you to hospital if you are vomiting. Even the NHS hospital warned us to have extra money to pay off an angry taxi driver if we were vomiting or had the risk of our waters breaking on the way to hospital.
The trouble with something like severe pain and vomiting is it can be a precursor to a heart attack. Women and men present different symptoms, so it can be missed if it's not the classic tell tale pain in the chest and arm.
I'd say 111 for advice. NHS website for info & options. I've even called pharmacists for advice when GPs are shut.
If things worsen pain is severe, numbness has set in, bleeding is heavy, breathing is problematic, fevers are dangerously high, vomiting is out of control, a rash has developed or anything like that which can be a sign of something serious and if no doctor has called back, I'd call 999 too.

In the summer my DH took unwell suddenly and he was waiting for a call back from out of hours. 10 minutes later he had difficulty breathing and he was incoherent, I phoned 999 and the Rapid Response arrived in 6 minutes. My DH had an infection which travelled to his brain and could have died. I was worried about wasting their time and I was apologetic. The paramedics said you should always call for assistance and not waste any time.

I think it’s universal that ooh is accessed via 111 now? They decide what to do with you.

Isn't there an NHS helpline 24 hours or out of hours. If this was the first experience of kidney stones it was very extreme. Usually have a few uncomfortable episodes leading up to such a severe one. Can remember a few in similar circumstances is no car so she set aside a fairly large amount of cash to cover a taxi to and from hospital or other emergency. Stashed it well out of sight not to be tempted. Worked for her when father was taken very ill suddenly. She made it to hospital to see him.

If you can't mobilise the person, it's entirely appropriate. I / family have phoned 999 in two circumstances where life was not at immediate risk but ambulance crews did tell us our use of them was entirely appropriate

1. Elderly person falls, needs two fit strong people to get him up, only elderly spouse available. Sometimes simply put back in chair, sometimes wound up in hospital. Happened many times, they were always happy to help.

2. Middle aged relative fell down stairs and injured leg (required operation). I was the only person in the house and couldn't get him off the floor let alone into a taxi. Not going to kill him immediately but I had no alternative.

You did the right thing ringing 111

I agree you did the right thing. None of it is is an exact science is it? My DD had similar symptoms (different cause) & we called 111, were seen in an out of hours clinic, sent home & called 111 a few hours later when she was shouting the place down in pain. They sent an ambulance and she was having emergency surgery within a few hours. We were also worried about misusing resources but we are so grateful that we trusted our instincts to call again when she got worse.

When our GP is shut if we are really I'll we ring 111 and they arrange for us to see an after hours GP or a doctor will speak to us and advise us. My husband had kidney stones at work and got a workmate to take him to A&E where he was given morphine and taken to a ward where he stayed for a week as the stones were quite large. We also had to ring 111 at midnight a couple of years ago for husband, got after hours GP appointment as husbands left hand went numb doctor gave pills and an hour after we had gone home he rung us as he'd had time to think and was worried about husband, by this time other hand had gone numb. Got emergency scans and appointment with a neurosurgeon and it was a trapped nerve in his neck, also found his sciatica was due to disc in his lower back being damaged so had operation and is OK now. I would not hesitate to ring 111 if I needed advice and my GP was shut.

You did the right thing.

I’m surprised the paramedics didn’t take you in to hospital to be honest. I didn’t think kidney stones could be diagnosed without a scan.

To access any out of hours service here you have to ring 111. No other number. No drop in centres. No minor injuries unit. If you self present at A&E here with anything other than an accident or an emergency then they’ll direct you to a cubicle where you are told to ring 111.

Hope you’re feeling better soon.

I have never called for an ambulance..always out of hours or 111 first. However, , 111 have sent an ambulance three times, once when it was thought my daughter had meningitus and once for DH when his heart was beating very irregularly. They sent a doctor out first though...and I clearly remember offering to drive my daughter to hospital (I didn't think she had meningitus..thankfully she didn't) but they said it wasn't safe and she needed to be there asap. In the case of DH the heart thing happened again and 111 phoned for an ambulance but they decided he could come in the car, driven by me. The nursing staff at hospital went mad and lodged a complaint...they said he should have come in an ambulance.

I’ve had a kidney stone, for anyone who has suggested seeing your GP, you maybe haven’t experienced such pain. I collapsed in pain, very sudden onset, I’ve given birth to 4 children, 2 without pain relief. I’d cheerfully suffer that pain rather than that of a kidney stone. My stone was so large I couldn’t have passed it, it was large enough to stop my kidney from functioning properly. I was lucky enough to have to have my OH available to drive me to A&E, if he wasn’t I would have certainly called an ambulance.

you did the right thing, you asked for advice, they can arrange an out f hours doctor, ambulance etc and based on your symptoms you were sent an ambulance. They wouldn't have done that unless they thought it nessessary.

It’s not often easy to know which service to use. Out of hours GP can take a Long time, when you are worried. 111 are good at helping you know but in a real emergency waste valuable time. Walk in GP clinic is good if you don’t need back up of hospital services. Phoned 111 on a Saturday night told to go to GP clinic in the morning. She took one look at me and sent me to A &E who could tell. A& E had sent me home 24 hours earlier this time l was admitted for a week as needed IV antibiotics orals had been described by own GP turns out to be a superbug. No one knew till the lab report arrived. In the meantime l was in terrible pain. It’s not straightforward.

I had to do it for a finger injury for my DD when it was sort of hanging off after getting trapped in a door. No way I could have gotten her even to MIU in my own. DD was 8 months old at the time and also had a toddler in tow. No other practical way of doing it. Felt terrible having to do it though. Ambulance crew had to reassume it was fine and the right thing to do.

My dh drove to our local a & e on saturday morning with a "pulled muscle" in his chest and didn't class himself as urgent. Turned out to be a bloody heart attack! He ok now had stent fitted and hopefully be home tomorrow

You rang 111 first. You did the right thing. This is exactly what 111 is there for. It is for those instances when you are ill or injured but not sure if there is another option. 111 are capable sending you straight to put of hours GP (I know as we’ve had this done with DS when he had a severe ear infection and my GP kept fobbing me off saying it was a probably just virus or teething problems) they can send out emergency doctors to you (had this with DS when at first we thought he had a stomach bug but soon became clear it was worse and it turned out to be scarlet fever) they can just give you advice on what to do for your symptoms and what other symptoms to watch for and what actions to take if symptoms worsen etc. And they can also tell you to go to a&e or send an ambulance to you. They make a judgement call based on your symptoms. I love 111. I have been able to talk through my children’s symptoms and get advice and peaceful of mind and also have them listen and do something about it when needed. GPS are busy and things get missed, having a phone service like 111 is invaluable to the NHS.

If you dont have a car, and need to get to A&E for a non life-threatening emergency then call a taxi, that is what they are there for.

The only exception to this is if you are physically unable to get into a taxi, eg a fall and you are unable to get off the floor.

Ambulances are not a taxi service.

I think it’s universal that ooh is accessed via 111 now? They decide what to do with you.

Not universal, no. There is no 111 in my area.

If you dont have a car, and need to get to A&E for a non life-threatening emergency then call a taxi, that is what they are there for.

As I posted upthread, you couldn't do that where I live, you wouldn't be able to get a taxi at short notice, particularly if it's Saturday night for example. Maybe you could on a weekday morning...

(Wouldn't be an issue for me anyway as I have plenty of friends I could call on)

Interesting chat here. I have recently been diagnosed with Addison's disease, which means my body has stopped producing cortisol. This means that if I have an accident or I am vomiting/have diarrhoea I need to take an emergency injection and call an ambulance immediately. I feel like a right fraud, but because of the Addison's I can go into shock and adrenal crisis very very quickly so it really is a matter of life and death. If you just looked at the bare bones of it (I called 999 cos I threw up) it sounds ridiculous!

@Amiable I have Addison’s too.