When is it right to call 999?

[CanadaMoose91]

Let me preface this by saying that obvious time wasters (scraped knee, runny nose) need not apply.

But I've seen so many people say that only cardiac arrest, stroke, or issues breathing are acceptable. This worries me, as I haven't got a car, and wouldn't be able to drive myself or my family to A&E if anything happened.

For example, a few weeks back I was having severe pains in my back and stomach - a pain so intense that I was writhing, was vomiting, and couldn't keep anything down. It took over 5 hours of this pain to actually call 111, who told me I should have called earlier and sent an ambulance. It was diagnosed as kidney stones, and was told it would pass. The crew left immediately. I felt so awful and felt I had wasted money and resources on an already crumbling NHS.

The thing is, what is someone supposed to do in that situation? I don't want to cost the country a fortune, but what if it was something as serious as it felt? I don't want to be goady, I really just want to know if there is an alternative to 111, 999 or A&E if breathing is ok.

All GP practices have an out of hours service - usually one service combined with other local practices.

Are you sure? Ours doesn't seem to. I called them not long ago on a day where it turned out they were closed half day and the answering mesage basically said..we are closed, call 111 for advice and 999 in an emergency. Surely if they did have an out of hours service, the message would have had the number on. Just checked their website and that doesn't mention an out of hours service either.

BatShite I don’t know if every hospital has them but many do and there will be one in the area that does - we were sent to the third closest hospital for an out of hours recently, and previously we’ve been sent to a slightly bizarre clinic.

I think that if you could drive yourself or be driven by partner, friend etc. but the only thing stopping this is that you don't actually have access to a car, then you should call for a cab. Ambulances are not a taxi service because you don't have your own transport.

Had to call an ambulance last year - emergency, life-threatening situation. Ambulance took over 45 minutes and called once to ask for directions. In the meantime, one of our party managed to save the life of the person involved, with very minimal medical training.

From now on if physically possible I'd put someone in a car and take them to hospital if at all possible. Though saying that, I did that once with a toddler with breathing difficulties, rushed in to A&E to try to explain that we were in the middle of a bad asthma attack and needed help and the woman at the counter told me I just needed to sit down and wait as the computer was broken and she couldn't book us in.

@Flora, not having a go at you but the reason why you had to wait so long is due to the fact that people these days feel that they need to call for an ambulance for any minor injury rather than go to GP, pharmacy, OOHs, etc or go to A&E under their own steam. E.g. A child falls and breaks their arm, parents call 999, ambulance arrives and there are 2 cars on the drive in front of the house, paramedics will not tell parents to drive their child to hospital because when they arrive they have a duty of care until they hand over to A&E staff. The public needs to wise up that ambulances are for LIFE THREATENING EMERGENCIES, OK I've put my soap box away and finished my little rant 😳

We had this situation recently.

I never ever would dream of phoning for an ambulance without good cause. I had a severe bout of flu a few weeks ago, and wasn’t getting any better.

I kept getting dizzy, almost fainting, felt horrendous each day. Then I got a headache, my left side started going numb, and I started shaking, uncontrollably. My whole body was shaking, and my speech was off. I genuinely thought there was something seriously wrong.

We called 111, who then agreed an ambulance was needed.

BUT. When the paramedics turned up, they were pretty pissed off. Their whole demeanour was shocking really. After DH explained everything, they said I probably still had the flu, and needed to rest.

They asked why I hadn’t seen the GP. I had! But these symptoms were sudden, and bloody frightening.

They made an appt for me to see my GP next day, but said if I felt better, not to bother and cancel.

Anyways, I went to GP who though I’d had a mini stroke and thought the ambulance was the right call.

I felt really shit though.

I wanted to post about it on mumsnet but was bit scared of the ‘you’re the reason the NHS is on its knees’ response.

111 usually arrange for you to go to the ooh gp service. They triage the calls and decide if you need a call back from nurse/Dr. Or an ooh appointment or if need to go to a&e yourself or call an ambulance.

111 is usually the gateway to ooh gp.

That's how it is here anyway

I think you know when it’s appropriate to call. I’ve only called when I broke my foot and was home alone with a baby and DH was 4hrs away and when I was having a pretty bad asthma attack.

Understand your concern OP, have had to ring 999 myself as had symptoms of possible stroke.
Apparently unlikely at my age, but 111 insisted for safety. Spent 8hrs in A&E, scans etc, never did discover cause, but all hospital and ambulance staff were lovely and told me much better to be safe than sorry, to quote a cliché.
Personally would always try GP/OOH GP/111 first, they can be overcautious though. Frankly, if anyone I knew was in that much pain, I'd have called too!
To clarify, rural area here, nearest A&E 40 mins away, no public transport there in evening, no car at time, and told not to drive anyway.

According to mumsnet, you should NEVER use the NHS for any services ever under any circumstance. In the case of amputation, hop to the ER to avoid overtaxing the ambulance service.
It is actually ideal for a doctors appointment to only be available in a weeks time, as the weak will have been killed off and the rest will get better, so you can cancel that appointment before you need it and free that timeslot for someone with a real emergency. What counts as a real emergency I don't know, as broken backs, organ failure and premature labour don't count.
It should be compulsory for everyone to have medical training much like other countries do army service, then we could leave the poor beleaguered NHS alone!

I would think 999 covers someone in unexplainable excrutiating pain that is isn't improving on its own and the obvious ones like bleeding buckets or a serious accident/or health issue making them unconscious.

I got hit by a car mamy many yrs ago but luckily only broke my foot. Being young I had no idea of protocol but before I knew it there was an ambulance to take me to hospital, I suppose using logic they might have wanted to know if there was any other injuries that could come with being hit by a car or they could have left after checking me for another more needy person and I'd have managed to get to a hospital somehow.
shrugs

Its absolutely fine that you didn’t need to go to hospital even though an ambulance came for you. They leave about 50% of people at home; in your case there was no way of knowing what the problem was over the phone.

Ambulances are for people who either need immediate on the spot treatment (cardiac arrest, heart attack) and/or who are too sick or fragile to get to hospital safely any other way (heart attack, broken hip, burst appendix).

It’s up to the call takers to weed out people who don’t really need an ambulance and a fair number of people get turned down. Unsurprisingly the system is very risk averse so more people get ambulances than need it. Crews can leave people at home or tell them to make their own way to hospital, but once they’re there it’s often easier to take the patient in themselves than to stand down.

PS - DH is a paramedic, I’m a volunteer with the ambulance service.

I think that you did the right thing by calling 111. My Doctors surgery doesn't have a separate out of hours service, it just says on their website to call 111. It could be that your doctors surgery is the same.

Here, 111 is your gateway to the out of hours GP, you can't just turn up and our GP practices do not hand out the out of hours GP number.

If you aren't sure, 111 is probably the best option, however there are people who know exactly which words to say that will ensure 111 send out a paramedic regardless of whats really necessary!

Unfortunately didn't have the £60+ for taxi in this case. If I lived 10mins away from hospital would have preferred that option tbh x

I would always call 111 unless I thought life was possible danger. They can redirect you to 999 services. Unless it was obviously something really bad.
In fact I do the same for the police. Two horses ran out in front of me very near a A road. I called non emergency police at the time but maybe not a good idea as I then I had to hold and listen to a recorded message before being out through. But I had already had to pull over safely, stop engine etc so a few more seconds I guess felt like forever.
I called 999 four times in my life.

1. my child choking and unable to breath ( realised he would be dead before ambulance came and thank god I dislodged the obstruction while on the phone)
2. pedestrian hit at 30 mph and thrown over a car roof
3. obstacle bouncing all over the motorway
4. man with gun at side of the road

I think like you and have historically had the same attitude. However trying to not burden the NHS almost spectacularly backfired last year - thought I was having panic attacks which I ignored for 3 days. I eventually went to a private gp near work (couldn't get an appointment with my actual gp and didn't want to "waste" a&e's time).

The dr I saw did an ecg and said I needed to get a taxi straight to hospital. He gave me a letter to give to a&e.

On arrival, on reading the letter I was seen immediately put into a wheelchair and taken to resus. Transpired my heart rate was stuck at 165 beats per minute and had likely been like that since my "panic attacks" had started.

The Drs attitude was that I should have come in earlier and that if in doubt always seek help as I'm not a medical professional with enough knowledge to decide and that I was extremely fortunate I hadn't had a cardiac arrest or stroke - I'm early 30s.

I would add that in explaining my symptoms to the private gp pre ecg test, he was also of the opinion that it was likely panic attacks so calling 111 may have resulted in me not seeking medical assistance and not being here now. 111 is useful but assessments over phone are not always enough.

As a aside my friends Mum called 111 with back pain which was a heart attack. ( she had no idea how serious it was) 111 knew the symptoms so you can’t go to far wrong calling them. It’s their call then if you need the ambulance if your not sure.

There are 2 walk in centres the same distance from me in opposite directions as A&E. Dc fell off the climbing frame at school and head said come straight away and take her to the hospital, her ankle was huge. Walked into a&e 5 and a half hour wait. I had been to the walk in centre before so rung them to ask if they do xrays, yes bring her straight in. From leaving a&e i was xrayed and home in 40 mins. There was no one there, i told her about casualty and she said its strange as they are always quiet. Have been twice before, once it was busy so they give you and appointment and you go back and be seen straight away, another time i waited 20 mins. The other walk in is the same. So while casualty is rammed full with a 5hr wait the walk ins empty. Maybe people don't google where their walk in centres are or dont realise some can do what A&e do.

Sorry, v new here, didn't realise reply doesn't autolink . Previous post was to pp who would have called a cab.

This one's to liminality and can't find crying with laughter emoji, but I am!

OP lots of people use 111 if they are unsure what to do. That is its purpose. So if they thought they should send an ambulance, then relax. And 111 do take into account things such as whether you have another adult with you or not.

Even the health professionals can't agree when it's appropriate sometimes. I called 999 in a similar situation, dh was in immense pain and we had no idea why. I was told someone would call me back.....within an hour. I wasn't risking waiting for an hour. I then had to bundle him into the car to get him seen by someone asap. GP surgery is a few mins away, hospital 45+ so opted for GP. GP saw him immediately, suspected kidney stones and gives a muscle relaxant and morphine. GP then asks me why I didn't call an ambulance! Can't win

The time to call an ambulance is;
When the patient is in immediate danger /life threatening situation and it is vital to bring a medical specialist to the patient. Having said that YOU might have to intervene to save a life because there is insufficient time to wait for the ambulance crew.

If patient is not in a life threatening condition and can mobilise then taxi/drive to A&E/walk in centre.

If unsure ring 111 for advise.

Anything else,>walk in centre>GP>Pharmacist.

I do think there is something in the British psyche that says, help>Im ill>dial 999

Those days are OVER.

The thing with severe pain - broken things, kidney or gall stones is that often an ambulance can give immediate top level pain relief and believe me gallstones I know can be excruciating - I would never have believed the pain levels if I hadn't experienced myself, I am talking hands and knees gut wretching knife twisting innards ripping pain here. Kidney stones are meant to be worse and when having an attack a & e is def n appropriate place to be