To be really pissed off with DISRESPECT from DS and his homeless mate?

[Sanshin]

DS is almost 17. He's done fuck all since leaving school at 16 and spends his time dossing around the house or out with "friends". One friend in particular is on a downward spiral. He's 16 like DS and throughout the year I've received texts from DS saying "can 'josh' sleep over as he's arguining with his mum and can't go home."

I have anxiety and don't like people in the house but 5/10 times I've agreed to let him stay the night.

Then a few weeks back this lad appeared as a missing person on Facebook. 14k shares, distraught mother ... hes eventually found dossing at mates houses (not mine at the time, I was one of the mugs sharing the post trying to find him).

Anyway to cut a long story short the texts from DS changed to "can josh stay the night as he's got nowhere to go and I can't leave him out on the street". I often agreed against my own judgement.

Then 2 days ago DS brought him here and the lad told me that he no longer lived with his mum but was living at a mates house with her family whilst he awaited hostel accommodation. Apparently he'd tried to get help from the council and they wouldn't help as he was deemed mentally unstable. I asked him why, as he's only 16, social services were not involved. He gave me a round the house's answer which didn't make much sense and just went on about being mentally unstable and that's why nobody can help. I'm a healthcare professional so this isn't making sense to me. It doesn't add up.

Last night at 11pm DS text me asking if 'josh' could stay as he had nowhere else to go. I said "no, not tonight" as it would have meant two nights in a row and DH is getting annoyed by it. Plus it's a slippery slope to "well, he might as well move in since he's here most nights". We have enough problems as it is without adding another one to the mix.

DS REplied "please, I can't leave him out in the cold". I don't believe he is out in the cold so said no.

Then at midnight I got a Facebook message from a random kid asking if I was DSs mum and to let me know that DS had missed the last bus home so would be walking home - so leave the door unlocked when I go to bed so he can get in!!! I waited up until 1am and then went to bed. My instincts told me DS was using this is a way to smuggle this mate into the house for the night and this morning I find that I'm right. "Homeless young man" is on DSs bedroom floor.

I'm fucking raging. After the sob story yesterday I gave him a pep talk about how he's worth so much more than he currently believes, offered help with CV and referrals to people that can help etc ... I've not been dismissive to this lad yet the pair of them treat me like a fucking idiot.

DH doesn't yet know that he's here so he'll hit the roof at any point now. AIBU to feel like telling DS to join his precious mate in the hostel application??!! I wouldn't really, but I feel like it. I'm so pissed off at being treated like a mug.

'I think you DS is being a lovely kid and a good friend.

I know that’s difficult for you to see and I don’t blame you at all but I think he sounds really lovely.'

Why not offer him space in your home then? He's bunked out of school, works 8 hours/week, hangs out with drug-taking gangsta wannabes, asks his mum to leave her house unlocked at night (do not do that again, OP, it invalidates you insurance, for starters) so he can disrespect her and sneak his dodgy mate in. He's so lovely he cares more about his mates than his family.

My guess is that Josh's mum had enough of him but was under the mistaken believe that the council hands over flats to 16-year-olds on the basis of one letter. It hasn't been that way for a while.

I'd be furious. Do you have other children in the home? This isn't good for them, either.

I'd contact SS about Josh but no more letting him stay over and no more leaving the door unlocked. Fuck that!

Lots of parents write letters to the council like this to help their kids get accommodation even when they can go home.

My brother went down this route, although he was 18 rather than 16. He spent years in squats, unemployed etc. Luckily for him he had skills which were then in short supply, grew up and got out of it. He is in his 50s now; this is nothing new.

My youngest DS did a similar thing. Got himself kicked out of school and refused to come with us when we had to relocate for work. He is now 26 and really regrets the lost years when he could have been getting training or A levels.

Doesn't help the OP but we seem to be raising generations of lost boys. They are too big to be controlled but too young to understand what they are doing. How do we solve this as a society?

And I completely disagree that the OP should be helping to sort Josh out. He has parents of his own, and we've all seen that attempt to get a council house by pretending you've kicked them out.

'Lots of parents write letters to the council like this to help their kids get accommodation even when they can go home.'

Except it doesn't work so well now because the rules about housing benefit to under 25s have changed. No more free flats to 16-year-olds to use as doss houses, quite rightly, because who would want to live next to that? They have to be care leavers if under 18 to get HB at all, and sometimes not even that if they are in a Universal Credit area.

He is entitled to housing from ss under the Southwark ruling. The council will put him in the foyer or similar its suppprted living facility.

Op get tough it sounds v stressful.

expat
I know the letter doesn't actually get them accommodation but if you are estranged from your parents you can get HB / LHA even at 16-25, hence why parents write letters.

The letter does not always mean that the person cannot go home but for kids that won't go home parents write them so they can get help.

Even under UC people who are usually not entitled to a housing element can get it if -
"You cannot live with your parents because they do not have a home in Great Britain or it is inappropriate for you to live with them for another reason"

I know of two 17 year olds (different ones) for whom this worked even under UC, even though there should be no housing elements to under 18s and barely any to 18-21 year olds.

if Josh is under 18 and estranged from his parents, there will be help available for him. It might be in a night shelter with heroin dealers, or it might be foster care, it depends on your council's policies.
However you are not responsible for him.

expat that is not necessarily true

Tell DS he has to start contributing to the household finances so he needs to get a full time job. You’re in a difficult position, OP. I think I remember you posting about your ds being violent to his stepdad previously?

Honestly at 17 it would be more fun crashing on friends sofas than being in foster care. My nephew did this when he ran away at 17 from his extreme helicopter parents.
I would refuse to put up friend ever. There is help at this age, which there might not be if he gets to 18 and is homeless. To the person who said there is little help between 18 and 25 years of age - there is much more help at this age than there is when you get older.

It is positive that your son is managing to hold down a job, even if it is only 8 hours a week. It shows he can do this. But services are right, if he will not engage, nobody can make him.

Velvetspoon - I think the biggest issue the OP Is having here is not that her son's mate is "just" homeless, it's because they have history of trashing houses in which they are staying.

It's bad enough when it's just your own child doing that, but having a similar mate along, who has zero responsibility to your house and obviously enjoys trashing places, is just going to make everything much much worse.

If the kid was a good kid, or even a half-good kid, who appreciated the helping hand he was being offered, it would possibly be a different story. Doesn't sound much like that's the case here. :(

I agree with this:
Your DS's intent to support his friend is correct and admirable, but the pressure on you and your DH is unfair.
And the other posters who said similar things.

However, the fact I agree with that sentiment DOESN'T mean that I think this situation should continue. I think this situation is wrong for both Josh and the OP's DS and it's making the OP unhappy and stressed.

So I think what I would do is, when the boys get up, suggest again that you call SS and/or offer to go with him to SS. If he refuses say that you don't want him staying with you regularly (that's fine - it's your home) and, therefore, this is what you're going to do the next time he stays. And when you do this it won't be with him, it'll be you making a report to Social Services as a means of safeguarding a homeless minor.

If you've given your DS a deadline, then you're already working to tackle that. But I agree with the PP who listed the chores that should now be your DS's responsibility. And I think you should be charging him rent. (not if he's in education, but if he's working then he should be paying it).

I wish you luck, OP. It sounds very grim. I know it won't help, but have some

I would definitely contact the 'homeless' mate's DM by whatever means you've got. She needs to know where her DS is and you need to get to the bottom of why he's dossing at your house. Has she really kicked him out and if so, why? I disagree that he's your problem - he's his parents problem and I would make them understand that he's washed up on your floor and that you're not happy about it.

Did an AS...........

OP you have your DS (16) who sounds like a lazy little git (and the Christmas money on cannabis thread) I was wondering if drugs were involved in Josh's MH issues too (likely to be )

The slobby 18/19yo Uni son

The DH sounds a catch too

Get Josh out now
He isn't welcome over your doorstep

Don;t let your 18yo doss around in his Uni holidays.

Is staying with his dad an option for your DS ? Is he in another area away from these 'friends' ?

Your DH- up to you but I don't think I'd hang around.

Sounds like you want to pack everything up and just get away from all off them (except Dog) , I don't blame you

Contact social services.

He is either lying deliberately or has not understood what he’s been told, but of course his ‘mental health issues’ mean that SS would help him more, not exclude him from any help other people can access?!?!? I suspect he’s weaving a sob story for your ds with this. You need to be very clear about the reality of his friends situation to your ds. It sounds like he believes anything his friend says at the moment. And there’s a lot of resentment being built up about it which will be used against you of you don’t start to take control of the situation. Don’t kick your son out or threaten to do that in any immediate sense. I suspect your ds would all too willingly go with his friend, as he seems to be aligning himself with this friend in so many ways, it would fit in with the story he’s telling himself eg BOTH our parents chucked us out, it’s so unfair, the council won’t help coz he’s got problems and the whole world owes us everything, to make up for a catalogue of perceived slights and childish injustices.

Don’t force your son into going down that route.

I’d concentrate on the friend. Find out what support there really is, and do your part to alert the right people. I wouldn’t go phoning his mum, taking on the role of ‘problem solver’ is a slippery slope to taking on all responsibility. Explain his options and then keep repeating. Start shining some light on his lies and pretences that are feeding your sons sense of loyalty and injustices.

If you decide that you will have him round at all, I’d make some basic rules and say that if he wants to be in your house even for an hour in the day he must abide with the rules or get out.

Good luck, it sounds miserable for you.

BTw, these ‘mental health problems’ that are so conveniently being used as a reason that the authorities will not help him... is that teenage dosser code for drugs and alcoholic trashing of property and abuse towards people? As I can imagine ss or similar saying that they won’t engage with him if he’s going to swear at them or trash council offices or property.

I suspect that’s the kernel of truth behind the clearly incorrect and ridiculous woe is me ‘no one will help me coz... mental health’.

deliberately got himself excluded from school to enhance the bad boy reputation he decided to fashion for himself
the bad boy reputation can be very attractive and compelling for some young lads, it's an easy and quick way to get power and status and a sense of masculinity, especially when other sources of status such as material success are not attainable or too much like hard work.

The OP is in a very difficult situation, they have you over a barrel OP and I dont know what the solution is.

OP, your local council will be able to give you information about apprenticeships and traineeships that your son can apply to. Ours has a whole section of apprenticeships listed, in all sorts of areas.

Of course there's a world of difference between seeing them online and getting your son to apply to them, let alone to get him to attend: is there anything at all that he's interested in? That he'd like to do? That he enjoyed at school and showed promise at? Because interesting him in something is the first stage. One of our children hated school and is now doing an apprenticeship and it's been really great for him: he's changed from being miserable and refusing to do anything to getting up early every morning and looking forward to going to work. Having cash in his hand every week has helped too!

I hope you find something to interest your son, I really do.

juneau It depends, if he the Ds friend have been violent to his parents, they may be quite right to have thrown him out.

Thanks for the messages of support and advice. After new year I'll give the council and connections a call and find out what there is. I've finally managed to get rid of them after stuffing a bacon sandwich down their necks and showing them the door. At least I know young man won't be hungry for a while if nothing else.

If he's been violent to his parents I think the OP needs to know. There are drugs involved, by the sound of it, so they could've kicked him out for that too, but I think I'd want to know what I was dealing with. I'd also want to push the problem back onto the parents, if possible. This boy doesn't exactly sound like an ideal house guest and the OP has enough on her plate with her own DS, let alone someone else's.

Sanchin, Please know that there are many parents same as you struggling with 16 year olds who are either disengsged or partially disengaged from school.

My friend works with young teens who have stopped going to school. She says many mums end up leaving their own employment due to the stress, and needing to be home, with the school calling them in, and Mum being so stressed about their teen refusing schhol Then both Mum & teen end up home and unhappy disengaged from school and work. It can be a slippery slope.

In time your DS will make something of himself- please believe this- Whatever YOu believe he will be , may come to be. deep Deep down he senses what you believe him to be if you think he is useless and is not a nice person, he will feel deep shame. Dont believe the tough 'fake gangsta Lads ' act. This is a cover over the real person who wishes he had made something of himself that you could feel proud of, at school or at work. He doesnt want you to believe he is a useless person. He wants his parents to believe in him. No chance of his Dad beieving in him as sounds like he has lost the fight to self respect. But you can continue to be a supportive parent , not by putting up with crap, but by pointing out DS poor choices, but keeping the faith that he will find his way to making better choices
It is true your DS couch surfing friend Josh is currently leading him to a.very bad place. That doesnt mean you can snap fingers and ban his friend, Josh, it wont work. I think you are on the right path, and could continue offering his friend a healthy meal, & occassional place to stay, but as others say, insist he needs to talk to relatives and find sonewhere stable to live. You say many relatives are texting - they could be the safe place then he needs ? Can you message his parents , ask to go to his home and speak with his parents as their son is asking to stay at yours? There is no quick solution for 'Jish' but he doesnt live with you. You can as others say, ackowledve that your DS has been kind and a good person to offer a hand and somewhere safe to stay for a night, but you have your own responsibilities. I dont belive your DS would suddenly stop seeing his friend Josh though, if you said he had to never bring him over. And this does not acknowledge your DS is supporting his friend.

With your DS he has been behaving poorly and cery challenging but never label him a 'bad pwrson'. Having a Dad who is a poor role model is bound to make him mixed up but you can continue to be the one role model who believes in him. That dossnt mean denying your DS has been behaving badly. Change from saying he is 'not a nice person'to he is not acting like a nice persin. This way you keep the faith. You keep reminding your DS he can behave better. One day he will. Don't give up. He will be far from perfect and may have flaws but he will mature and with your faith that he must aim higher, he may surprise you. OK it may take a lot of heartache and bad times for him to wake up, as some learn the hard way. but he will try to improve with your encouragement. Nobody wants to be a loser.