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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is normal, or should I/we interfere more

105 replies

ReadyForGoodNews · 28/12/2017 18:23

My two teenagers, DD15 and DS16 are always, ALWAYS arguing. The whole fucking time. We can't be in the same room all of us together without them either muttering insults to each other or just plain out right shouting.
We're having dinner, they argue about who's eating what, how much the other has had etc. If we're playing a board game, one of them is always making fun of the other, taking it too far and then it all becomes a huge argument.
DS has form for always criticising DD. Things like "oh you're a failure", "you're so dumb", "look at her, she's pure evil", "you'll never get anywhere in life", "You always fail at maths" Angry and then whenever she says something about anything, he will SIGH sarcastically, mutter "ugh, idiot"... etc etc
DD on the other hand, loves interjecting all conversations with something mean about her brother: "no one cares what you think", "who said we want to know your opinion", "you have no friends", "yeah right that's so brilliant, you think you're so great", "yeah we really don't know it was you who finished the cake" Angry
Really NOT NICE!!! And I really hate it!!!
DH can't handle it and when it gets to a certain point, he gets upset and tells them off, to which DS replies with a very infuriating satisfied smile and DD acts like a horrified victim and leaves the room.
I try to ignore until I feel it's going to go too far, and I either change the subject, or say something like "enough, if you won't stop it please leave the table/room until you calm down".
This doesn't change the fact that the same happens every day every time they're in the same room. They used to have an ok relationship, normal sibling stuff.
We try very hard to never take sides. DH thinks we have to come up with more strategies and be more involved in trying to change this. But it just seems impossible to talk about this with them at the moment. Whenever we try, they think we're taking the other one's "side". UGH!!
AIBU in thinking this is normal teenage stuff and they'll grow out of it?

OP posts:
Brighteyes27 · 28/12/2017 19:43

I sympathise with you OP can’t offer any pearls of wisdom but my two are exactly the same DS older he’s just turned 14 and DD about to turn 13. Constant arguing insults put downs and we have aggression DS always goes over the top and physically hurts DD. It’s not nice when your household is a battlefield. Our two are at different schools and have no mutual friends this doesn’t help.
We even sent DS for counselling tried zero tolerance and nothing has worked. Both are lovely on their own and they used to be the best of friends more often than not when younger now it’s dreadful.

defineme · 28/12/2017 19:47

Absolutely crack down on this for your sanity, but try and remember this is a biological imperative-otherwise opposite sex siblings would be sexually attracted to each other. My brother and I wouldn't have dared disturb family mealtimes etc because we were parented 70s fear style, but we hated each other ages 12-16. However, we are firm friends today, just a bit of healthy disrespect.

pallisers · 28/12/2017 19:54

I have 3 teens and I would not tolerate this for a minute. Apart from the fact that they should not talk to each other or about each other (or anyone) like this, I couldn't tolerate this level of sniping and rottenness at my dinner table or in my home.

Don't debate, don't argue, don't say "I don't like it when you are unkind" just say very forcefully "no one speaks to anyone else in this home like that - stop it!" every single time - as soon as the words form on their lips. And I agree with Rossi too - lose your complete shit if necessary.

Mine can have a go at times - as in slagging/banter goes too far. If it does, we step in if we are there. But they certainly aren't mean to each other the way yours are - it sounds like a bad habit to be honest and one they simply need to break.

Of course they also have arguments or fights about stuff - within reason I stay out of those, as they are adult enough to sort out their own genuine disagreements but I would not tolerate for a minute anyone talking like this about someone else in my house.

singingdetective · 28/12/2017 19:56

My sister and I were like this and after she moved to Edinburgh when I was about 14 we just stopped speaking entirely. I haven't had any sort of contact with her for years (I'm 32 now) and I'm quite happy with it tbh. Sometimes the relationship just isn't there unfortunately.

ProseccoMamam · 28/12/2017 19:57

It's sibling rivalry. They don't actually hate each other, and although it's not nice to see or listen too there isn't really much you can do other than time travel and put a confirm on your DH.

Although I did read an article a few weeks ago about a woman who had 2 primary school aged kids who argued and she made them both get into a big jumper facing each other and slow dance around the living room until they made friends again

pallisers · 28/12/2017 19:57

this is a biological imperative-otherwise opposite sex siblings would be sexually attracted to each other.

Sorry but this is ridiculous. My 2 daughters love their brother (he is the one no one fights with) and are certainly not sexually attracted to him. My nephew and nieces are the same (well actually no one fights in that family),

I think there is a struggle for space/privacy/independence in teens that can manifest itself in lots of way - fighting with siblings like this can be one way. It doesn't mean you have to tolerate it or they have to think it is acceptable.

Enko · 28/12/2017 19:57

Dh and I operate a zero tolerance for such behaviour. In a house with 4 teenagers that is needed IMO. Result however is that they are close and love each other lean on each other for support (and hate each other in equal measures too - until someone tries to bother their sibling then watch out)

However the moment I hear anything mean I am on who ever said it like a ton of bricks. They know to not do so around me or their dad. I have never taken anything away from them as never needed to go that far. However in OPS case I think I would to begin with.

Xihha · 28/12/2017 20:06

DB2 is a year older than me and we went through a stage like this, mostly because he is fucking annoying and 14/15 year old me used to just get so angry. I don't think he even meant to be annoying, but like he will sit and flick his thumb over the nail on his ring finger, I can ignore it now and if I pull him up on it he does make an effort to stop but when we were teenagers if I commented he did it more and it wound me up.

Anyway, in the end mum banned us from being in the same room one school holiday, we had to have our meals separately in our rooms, no TVs or tech upstairs and they wouldn't take us anywhere in the car together or let us both go to the shop at the same time, lasted less than a week before we came to a truce.

Bumshkawahwah · 28/12/2017 22:01

Mine aren't teenagers yet but their bickering and fighting and general nastiness was driving me insane. I ordered this book and it really helped:

www.amazon.co.uk/Siblings-Without-Rivalry-Children-Together/dp/1853406309/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=sibling+rivalry+books&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1514498197&sr=8-2

It was so useful, not too long, thank god, and the tips I have taken from it are actually starting to work. It also made me realise that I was sometimes making the situation worse, without realising it. I'm really not into self-help books...this is how desperate I was.

Minestheoneinthegreen · 28/12/2017 22:33

Loving all the posts telling you how to fix this. If my dps had tried to 'be firm and consistent' we might have stopped fighting in front of them, but it would just have driven it underground. My db and I can tolerate each other for a few hours at a time now and we are in our 40s. Only thing that did work was not expecting us to spend prolonged time together and letting us go when it all looked like it would kick off. Just because you are related doesn't mean you have to like each other.

Bumshkawahwah · 28/12/2017 23:13

Minestheoneinthegreen - I kind of now get this. I don’t want to harp on about the book I read, but one thing it said was to give them a break from each other - stop trying to make them like each other. Of course I want them to love each other. But that might be too much to ask.

Original poster
ReadyForGoodNews · 28/12/2017 23:50

I do hope it's sibling rivalry and that they will eventually grow out of it like me and DSis did. I wouldn't want to think that they will grow up and not want to have anything to do with each other. I know that's not up to me but it would make me really sad.

OP posts:
deadringer · 29/12/2017 00:43

she made them both get into a big jumper facing each other and slow dance around the living room until they made friends again prosecco that is one of the funniest things I have ever read on here.Grin

ProseccoMamam · 29/12/2017 15:06

@deadringer

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qaN7NjM_HH0 this is the link if you want to watch Grin

deadringer · 29/12/2017 17:13

GrinGrinGrin

OnTheRise · 29/12/2017 18:58

I think that YouTube thing of the two children in the one shirt is awful. Those poor children. She's humiliated them for all the world to see.

And if one of them was bullying the other, how much worse does this make them feel? How does this help?

I don't think it's funny at all. I think it's horrible.

ProseccoMamam · 29/12/2017 22:27

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pallisers · 29/12/2017 23:58

Just because you are related doesn't mean you have to like each other.

No. But just because you are related doesn't mean you can call someone an idiot, dumb or friendless and have everyone think nothing of it. There is a difference between calling someone dumb and a failure in an argument with them alone - it isn't nice but it is an argument between siblings - and calling her dumb and a failure in front of your parents and have your parents ignore it - one is siblings fighting. the other looks like parents condoning it.

Whether you like your sibling or not, I think your parents have a duty to teach you how civil people should behave.

Neolara · 30/12/2017 00:10

The name calling is grim. It sounds like insulting each other has become a habit and totally normal. It must make both of them feel absolutely shit. I'd be concerned that this habit could leak into other relationships. How grim if in 10 years time your dcs talked like this to their partners..

I'm with others. I'd go for the " if you can't say something nice" approach at the very first hint of name calling..

pallisers · 30/12/2017 00:14

It sounds like insulting each other has become a habit and totally normal. It must make both of them feel absolutely shit.

I agree completely with this. It is a habit more than they are mean teens who hate each other. If they don't like each other much fair enough - they can stay out of each other's way. They can easily break this habit if it becomes a zero-tolerance for insults zone at home.

CappuccinoCake · 30/12/2017 00:30

It sounds to me like they're both hurting. I grew up in an atmosphere where being called a failure or useless was okay and it's completely denying my self esteem and life as an adult.

Those kind of words are never okay and I think part of the problem had been just seeing it as teenage behaviour and basically allowing them to continue being so abusive to each other.

I would definitely read "how to talk" even if it just changes your perspective. I also would challenge it and see it as important to work on not just something to ignore. I'd also make sure each child got 1-1 time with you at some point.

Growing up in an abusive environment and seeing it condoned by the only people who could stop it is soul destroying.

TheClaws · 30/12/2017 00:40

When they were younger, my DS and DD could bicker and fight between themselves all day. I was at my tether. I eventually said, “You will be brother and sister for life. Friends come and go, but you will always have each other. It hurts me to see you be so mean each other.” It’s a simple message, but they got it, and as older teenagers now, they are great friends. We have never had an issue in the teenage years between them. He stands up for her; she for him (she is a year or so older and two years ahead in school).

TheClaws · 30/12/2017 00:41

*end of my tether

Original poster
ReadyForGoodNews · 30/12/2017 00:53

pallisers we don't ignore it. I try to wait before jumping in because I thought it would maybe give them a chance to realise they need to stop. It's just one "strategy" if you like that we've realised didn't work. We don't just ignore it.

cappucino They definitely don't grow up in an atmosphere where name calling or calling others a failure is ok or overlooked.

We've had a chat with both and told them about zero tolerance and consequences etc and today has been a bit better (they have needed reminders but they've taken it on board).

I still think it's some kind of sibling rivalry that's being replayed because it's as if they are each trying to make the other one look bad in our eyes. So now having put them both in the same boat of zero tolerance, let's see how it will go.

Thanks everyone for sharing your words/experiences/wisdom Flowers

OP posts:
Julie8008 · 30/12/2017 00:53

sounds like pretty normal siblings who dont like each other. My experience is that you just got to wait until they grow out of it, not much else can be done.